1/28 poll: will the O’s acquire another starter who makes 20+ starts?

[Frobby]

2 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

The problem is all he seems to  be able to obtain in a trade is projects. His addition to help at the deadline was a bust. Kimbrel isn’t the pitcher he was…do you dispute this?

@Frobby he is tasting the fruits of building the system and the international stuff. Plus some successful pick ups from the dumpster.
 

We have a logjam between the mid tier veterans and the MLB ready/ nearly ready guys. He’s done nothing to clear room for guys like Ortiz, Mayo, etc. and if he’s not going to give guys meaningful opportunities you might as well get something for them and allow them to get a shot elsewhere… Norby and Stowers. 
 

 

Nobody ever said Elias is perfect or that they agree with everything he does or doesn’t do.   He’s built a very good team that has a good chance of being a contender over a sustained period of time.   If his biggest problem is that his system has developed too many good prospects and we can’t use them all, and that he hasn’t done a good job of converting those excess players into something else we could use, that’s a problem I can live with.    It beats having a team that is unable to draft or develop well and doesn’t produce enough players to win on any kind of sustained basis.   I’ve seen enough of that.  

[Roll Tide]

2 minutes ago, wildcard said:

I think Lorenzen will put up a better ERA than Gibson or Flaherty.   He would be one of their top 8 in the pen if that is where he ended up.   He is a little better than Irvin as a swingman.  Irvin and Lorenzen would add to the pitching depth for both starters and mis/ong men.

His FIP was mid 4s ….so what are you expecting a quarter of a run? In exchange you lose 40 innings. I don’t think that’s a good trade for a guy you let walk. 

[Roll Tide]

1 minute ago, Frobby said:

Nobody ever said Elias is perfect or that they agree with everything he does or doesn’t do.   He’s built a very good team that has a good chance of being a contender over a sustained period of time.   If his biggest problem is that his system has developed too many good prospects and we can’t use them all, and that he hasn’t done a good job of converting those excess players into something else we could use, that’s a problem I can live with.    It beats having a team that is unable to draft or develop well and doesn’t produce enough players to win on any kind of sustained basis.   I’ve seen enough of that.  

No his biggest problem is he’s not good at finding middle ground on trades. I don’t hold the failure of the Cease trade on him. I blame Getz that he hasn’t been dealt due to the absurd price tag. But, you can blame Getz for the deadline blunder and for the motionless offseason beyond bulking up AAA with AAAA players. 

[wildcard]

13 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

The problem is all he seems to  be able to obtain in a trade is projects. His addition to help at the deadline was a bust. Kimbrel isn’t the pitcher he was…do you dispute this?

@Frobby he is tasting the fruits of building the system and the international stuff. Plus some successful pick ups from the dumpster.
 

We have a logjam between the mid tier veterans and the MLB ready/ nearly ready guys. He’s done nothing to clear room for guys like Ortiz, Mayo, etc. and if he’s not going to give guys meaningful opportunities you might as well get something for them and allow them to get a shot elsewhere… Norby and Stowers. 
 

****Plus I’m tired of hearing about the cost of things and that he underestimated them. If you aren’t aware of the market and you’re a big league GM it’s just absurd. I would’ve been fine if they would’ve extended Gibson if they weren’t going to better him. I expect our top 3 to be fine ….but I’m not counting on Means (health)  and the gaggle of stuff currently at 5th starter.

Lorenzen will have a better ERA than Gibson.   And he can both start and relieve.

Elias can fix any logjam pretty fast.  Trading Urias and Stowers for minor league prospects.   They may decide that the increase Norby's value if they put in the outfield and make him a 2B/OF in trade later.

Mayo is not ready for the majors yet IMO.

[wildcard]

8 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

His FIP was mid 4s ….so what are you expecting a quarter of a run? In exchange you lose 40 innings. I don’t think that’s a good trade for a guy you let walk. 

You have to add in that Means is ready and GRod will pitch more innings this year.  Lorenzen just adds to the pitching depth on a World Series team.

[Hank Scorpio]

It is at this time where you look at the health of the organization top to bottom and relative to Elias say, “Whatever this man thinks is best, I’m good with.”

Ownership I think most of us/all of us can agree on sucks relative to payroll expenditures. That’s always gonna be until there’s new ownership. 

We just won 101 games with one of the youngest rosters in the game. If anyone makes the suggestion that we need a new GM I question their sincerity in that assertion. 

[RZNJ]

30 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

The problem is all he seems to  be able to obtain in a trade is projects. His addition to help at the deadline was a bust. Kimbrel isn’t the pitcher he was…do you dispute this?

@Frobby he is tasting the fruits of building the system and the international stuff. Plus some successful pick ups from the dumpster.
 

We have a logjam between the mid tier veterans and the MLB ready/ nearly ready guys. He’s done nothing to clear room for guys like Ortiz, Mayo, etc. and if he’s not going to give guys meaningful opportunities you might as well get something for them and allow them to get a shot elsewhere… Norby and Stowers. 
 

****Plus I’m tired of hearing about the cost of things and that he underestimated them. If you aren’t aware of the market and you’re a big league GM it’s just absurd. I would’ve been fine if they would’ve extended Gibson if they weren’t going to better him. I expect our top 3 to be fine ….but I’m not counting on Means (health)  and the gaggle of stuff currently at 5th starter.

1.  What projects has he traded for?

2. Dumb question on Kimbrel.  Of course, he’s not the Kimbrel in his prime but he should still be decent and k’d 94 in 69 innings last year.  The tank isn’t empty.

3. You’re tired of hearing he underestimated things?  Ya mean you’re tired of reading message boards where posters opine that’s what’s happening?

4. I’m sorry he’s not doing things on your timeline.   Which team is knocking down our door asking about Kyle Stowers because they want to give him shot?    

 

 

 

[Jim'sKid26]

If you want to rag on an MLB GM the guy to focus on is Chris Getz. What's this dude thinking? Fangraphs just did a review of their farm system and it is pretty bad. Their #1 prospect is a AA SS who is unlikely to stick there and likely plays an average 3B. They have 2 other SS in their top 10 at A ball and Rookie ball who both have FV < 45. Only 2 of their 10 guys in the top 10 are at AAA and their both pitchers.

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/chicago-white-sox-top-27-prospects/

He needs to trade for a few high value prospects to start a rebuild. Why in the world is he holding on to Cease? You can give him a pass if Cease stays health and brings something back at the deadline but why take that risk. Obviously we don't know what Elias is offering for Cease but if Getz gets nothing or very little for Cease he's made a big mistake, IMHO. 

[Ripken]

I think one more arm will be added but nothing significant, meaning not all that good and won't make 20 starts.  Something along the lines of the Irvin addition last year, though it could be a FA like Lorenzen, but I hope it's a trade to clear out some depth.  He's simply not going to give up the crown jewels, as he shouldn't, and has no money to spend on quality FAs.  It is what it is until there is new ownership.

[webbrick2010]

Assuming this was for berfore game 1 of the season

I believe Elias will wait to make a major trade at the deadline.

[Otter]

Past behavior is often the best predictor of future behavior.  We've had enough offseasons of the Elias/JA regime to use their actions to interpret what they're comfortable with and what they're not.  It appears JA won't pay for multi-year FA deals, and it appears Elias isn't comfortable trading any of his top 10 prospects for a veteran starter.  Therefore, I say the most likely outcome is a one year free agent contract for a #5 type starter who is slightly better than our existing #5 starter options.

[RZNJ]

13 minutes ago, Hank Scorpio said:

It is at this time where you look at the health of the organization top to bottom and relative to Elias say, “Whatever this man thinks is best, I’m good with.”

Ownership I think most of us/all of us can agree on sucks relative to payroll expenditures. That’s always gonna be until there’s new ownership. 

We just won 101 games with one of the youngest rosters in the game. If anyone makes the suggestion that we need a new GM I question their sincerity in that assertion. 

Your voice recognition changed “sanity” to “sincerity”.

[foxfield]

I think the possibility still exists to get not one but two pitchers before ST.   One each by FA and trade.  One of which will get 20+ starts.

[RZNJ]

1 minute ago, Otter said:

Past behavior is often the best predictor of future behavior.  We've had enough offseasons of the Elias/JA regime to use their actions to interpret what they're comfortable with and what they're not.  It appears JA won't pay for multi-year FA deals, and it appears Elias isn't comfortable trading any of his top 10 prospects for a veteran starter.  Therefore, I say the most likely outcome is a one year free agent contract for a #5 type starter who is slightly better than our existing #5 starter options.

Past behavior includes one off season when we were in what I’d call buy mode.   If Elias was a hitter we’d call that a SSS.  

[RZNJ]

2 minutes ago, foxfield said:

I think the possibility still exists to get not one but two pitchers before ST.   One each by FA and trade.  One of which will get 20+ starts.

It’s a little early to be drinking or whatever it is you’re doing.