Puck News: Orioles sold to Rubenstein

[Sports Guy]

Just now, interloper said:

So is John Angelos officially a member of the ownership group? He was described as hanging on as a "major investor" but is that different than being part of the ownership group?

And what of the other members of the original ownership group under Angelos?

He has 30% ownership until the dad kicks the bucket. I guess he has some level of say but i would think of Rubenstein wants to give someone 200M, he’s going to do it.

[wildbillhiccup]

Just now, Sports Guy said:

Right. I think he has some worthwhile things to say and comment on for sure but he needs to let Elias and the gang do what they do.  I could see Cal as a voice to try to keep the young players and get them locked up.

I also can see him as a “coach”..going down on working with guys and just being a sounding board for them…especially a guy like Gunnar.

I honestly don't want Cal anywhere near Gunnar from a coaching perspective. Being a HOFer doesn't make you a good coach, but it makes you "think" you're a good coach. Especially when your ego is as big as Cal's. I'm sure it will be fine though and his involvement will be strictly as a pseudo ambassador. 

[accinfo]

1 hour ago, sportsfan8703 said:

The other owners hated PA too for the playing the Cuban National team stuff. 

Mussina acted like Mussina and didn’t give us a chance to match his best offer like he said he would. Did PA mess that up or did Mussina wanna chase rings and the HOF in NY?

That is just not true.  Angelos made that wrong assumption and didn’t return his agents calls for months.  That is not hearsay but something I know for a fact.  By the time they got back to his agent the Orioles had been dismantled and Mike felt it was better to go try to chase a ring.  He never wanted to leave but Angelos thought he could get him cheap the second contract in a row.

[justD]

15 minutes ago, accinfo said:

That is just not true.  Angelos made that wrong assumption and didn’t return his agents calls for months.  That is not hearsay but something I know for a fact.  By the time they got back to his agent the Orioles had been dismantled and Mike felt it was better to go try to chase a ring.  He never wanted to leave but Angelos thought he could get him cheap the second contract in a row.

Thanks for this.  It's amazing that there is so much attention being paid to John Angelos as the one everyone loves to hate, but for heaven's sake, ask Brooks, ask Davey Johnson, ask Jim Duquette, and so many others, what it was like working under the thumb of his dad.  People want to read Britt Ghiroli's take on Peter, but she's already weighed in and even she focused the majority of her coverage on JA. 

There is a lot that I admire Peter Angelos for from the early years, but the way he ran the Orioles after Albert Belle (to my recollection, that was the real tipping point) brought so much pain to so many and I've got many friends who abandoned the Orioles for the Nats solely as a boycott of the meddling ways by which he ran the organization into the ground.  

There has been a lot said by journalists such as Ken Rosenthal over the years that describe the real reasons perhaps so many of us who've been around for a while are joyous about this.  Tony's headline article a few years back nailed a few of the issues as well. 

So I don't need any of those writers to necessarily lay it all out there, but damn, it amazes me that not only here on OH but also on the Foul Territory podcast and various Jomboy Media "shows" on YouTube and even some of the local coverage that's been quoted in this thread, so much negative Angelos attention has been about John without any real perspective about how long Orioles fans suffered under Peter Angelos ownership follies.

[justD]

Here's free access to an article from 2006 that describes what I remember so much of and why I've been doing little dances around the house the past 24 hours. 

What's the Deal? Angelos is Orioles' Dr. No

[Sports Guy]

5 minutes ago, justD said:

Thanks for this.  It's amazing that there is so much attention being paid to John Angelos as the one everyone loves to hate, but for heaven's sake, ask Brooks, ask Davey Johnson, ask Jim Duquette, and so many others, what it was like working under the thumb of his dad.  People want to read Britt Ghiroli's take on Peter, but she's already weighed in and even she focused the majority of her coverage on JA. 

There is a lot that I admire Peter Angelos for from the early years, but the way he ran the Orioles after Albert Belle (to my recollection, that was the real tipping point) brought so much pain to so many and I've got many friends who abandoned the Orioles for the Nats solely as a boycott of the meddling ways by which he ran the organization into the ground.  

There has been a lot said by journalists such as Ken Rosenthal over the years that describe the real reasons perhaps so many of us who've been around for a while are joyous about this.  Tony's headline article a few years back nailed a few of the issues as well. 

So I don't need any of those writers to necessarily lay it all out there, but damn, it amazes me that not only here on OH but also on the Foul Territory podcast and various Jomboy Media "shows" on YouTube and even some of the local coverage that's been quoted in this thread, so much negative Angelos attention has been about John without any real perspective about how long Orioles fans suffered under Peter Angelos ownership follies.

I have much more angst towards dad but I did respect the dad as a person a lot more.

[Moose Milligan]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

I have much more angst towards dad but I did respect the dad as a person a lot more.

That's a fair take.  He was a terrible owner after Belle...it's hard to remember there was a time where I think Orioles fans actually appreciated him because he did go out and spend money, but he got gunshy after Belle.  

But anyway, yeah, he was pretty much a self made man.  JA didn't accomplish anything in life except being born on third base and thinking he hit a triple.

[TonySoprano]

37 minutes ago, justD said:

There is a lot that I admire Peter Angelos for from the early years, but the way he ran the Orioles after Albert Belle (to my recollection, that was the real tipping point) brought so much pain to so many and I've got many friends who abandoned the Orioles for the Nats solely as a boycott of the meddling ways by which he ran the organization into the ground.  

Peter Angelos the GM was full of arrogant blunders.   Here are a few

Postseason 1998, the Yankees were trying to get Bernie Williams back.  They let it known in the media that they were considering a change to Joey.   Angelos fell for the ruse.  He met with his baseball people and asked them what they thought of Belle.  Angelos then proceeded to tell them he had already signed him to a 5/$65M deal, the highest at that time in MLB.  Joey was done after 2 years.

Chris Davis, another deal Angelos brokered on his own.  Enough said.

Wren had a deal in place with Mussina's agent.   Angelos wanted to wait.  

https://www.baltimoresun.com/2001/05/04/bottom-line-mussina-belonged-here/

“There was a huge window of opportunity,” Mussina told reporters before last night’s game at Camden Yards. Two general managers, Pat Gillick and Frank Wren, advised making a contract extension for Mussina a priority in the late ’90s. One club official said it was the next item on the agenda after Scott Erickson signed a 5-year deal in 1998.

“I thought, ‘Why not start talking then?’ ” said Mussina, who had signed a three-year deal after the 1997 season.

The Orioles could have signed him for five years and less than $40 million back then. How would that look now?

It never came close to happening, of course. Angelos has strong convictions about what a player who performs only once every five days is worth, and those convictions left him too far from what Mussina wanted – and what the pitcher ultimately fetched on the open market, by the way.

[Rbiggs2525]

Mussina, Davey Johnson, and Jon Miller were signs we may have all time bad owner.

Edited February 1 by Rbiggs2525

[Frobby]

4 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

Wonder what he has planned for Cal?  I’m glad Ripken is involved but don’t want him meddling either.

I hope he’s no more involved in baseball operations than Kurt Schmoke is.

[Frobby]

5 hours ago, Remember The Alomar said:

Maybe I'm reading too much into the phrasing, but this makes it sounds as though the paperwork is already in front of Major League Baseball. 

It might be, but MLB will do a good bit of due diligence on the ownership group and the structure of the deal before it’s put up for a vote.   It’s a matter of weeks and months, not days.  

[Roll Tide]

8 hours ago, wildbillhiccup said:

I honestly don't want Cal anywhere near Gunnar from a coaching perspective. Being a HOFer doesn't make you a good coach, but it makes you "think" you're a good coach. Especially when your ego is as big as Cal's. I'm sure it will be fine though and his involvement will be strictly as a pseudo ambassador. 

He’s involved with the Ripken baseball stuff. He’s been around the game his entire life and that’s in addition to his playing career. What makes you think he wouldn’t be a good mentor or coach?

Im just curious to get your thinking on this. I expect that Cal will likely be involved in the front office in some capacity. And really don’t think he will be involved with the on field stuff.

[Roll Tide]

6 hours ago, Rbiggs2525 said:

Mussina, Davey Johnson, and Jon Miller were signs we may have all time bad owner.

If I recall correctly he also vetoed Pat Gillick’s deadline fire sale that included Bonilla.

[Nite]

58 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

If I recall correctly he also vetoed Pat Gillick’s deadline fire sale that included Bonilla.

According to Buster Olney this was the beginning of the end. So because he vetoed that deal in 96 and they subsequently went on a streak of winning Peter thought the "experts" knew nothing and he could rely on his own gut and instincts. 

Thy rest is history as we know. 

[Going Underground]

8 hours ago, justD said:

Thanks for this.  It's amazing that there is so much attention being paid to John Angelos as the one everyone loves to hate, but for heaven's sake, ask Brooks, ask Davey Johnson, ask Jim Duquette, and so many others, what it was like working under the thumb of his dad.  People want to read Britt Ghiroli's take on Peter, but she's already weighed in and even she focused the majority of her coverage on JA. 

There is a lot that I admire Peter Angelos for from the early years, but the way he ran the Orioles after Albert Belle (to my recollection, that was the real tipping point) brought so much pain to so many and I've got many friends who abandoned the Orioles for the Nats solely as a boycott of the meddling ways by which he ran the organization into the ground.  

There has been a lot said by journalists such as Ken Rosenthal over the years that describe the real reasons perhaps so many of us who've been around for a while are joyous about this.  Tony's headline article a few years back nailed a few of the issues as well. 

So I don't need any of those writers to necessarily lay it all out there, but damn, it amazes me that not only here on OH but also on the Foul Territory podcast and various Jomboy Media "shows" on YouTube and even some of the local coverage that's been quoted in this thread, so much negative Angelos attention has been about John without any real perspective about how long Orioles fans suffered under Peter Angelos ownership follies.

Just a few things that happened under Peter Angelos ownership:

Rochester Red Wings,the Orioles AAA team was told that after 40 years we don't want to be associated with the Oriole organization.  Product and the way it was run 

After that the Orioles AAA team was supposed to move to Harrisburg, close to Baltimore but Peter kept asking for more things and the mayor on and others told him forget it.

Ended up in Ottawa as the Lynx and it was a disaster. Cold ,not a good stadium and terrible attendance.

Looked for a ST home for years. The weight equipment in the Miami facility was outside under a tent and a dilapidated place.

The minor league ST  field was so bad that many teams refused to play on it. Jake Arrieta complained about it and supposedly was one of the reasons that he was traded.

Jeffrey Hammonds once said that at each level of the minors you were taught different things,no continuity. 

Plus not much in international scouting or signings 

 

These are just a few of the many things under Peter.