What’s your reaction to the Burnes trade?

[Sports Guy]

2 minutes ago, LookinUp said:

This is true, but why not just sign the big arm now then? 

Maybe this is a one-time bridge year trade. If so, it is what it is, but I don't love it. I do love having an arm like Burnes and I'd be willing to overpay both in terms of trade price and contract. You have to pay a premium at the top end of the food chain and I think we should to keep him.

But I don't like it as a 1-year approach. 

I don’t think I want this to happen every year but this is what winning teams do. I think the thing that is constantly overlooked with these trades is that Elias can replenish the system because he’s so good at what he does. Losing Hall and Ortiz sucks. You don’t like losing cost controlled talented players but the idea of playing is to win a WS, so I’m doing deals like this every single time to improve those chances.

[interloper]

My only regret is I wish this happened earlier in the offseason because it's the kind of move that could help attract free agents who see that we're truly going for it now. Alas, most of the free agent bullpen guys are already spoken for. 

I would love another trade for a reliever. I don't really think we need to sign a Montgomery or a Snell nor do I think that's what Elias wants to do anyway.

[Sports Guy]

Just now, interloper said:

My only regret is I wish this happened earlier in the offseason because it's the kind of move that could help attract free agents who see that we're truly going for it now. Alas, most of the free agent bullpen guys are already spoken for. 

I would love another trade for a reliever. I don't really think we need to sign a Montgomery or a Snell nor do I think that's what Elias wants to do anyway.

They aren’t trying to attract other FAs.

[Ripken]

Love it and I would have added a bit more if needed.  We had to make a trade like this.

I like the two players we gave up and wish them well.  We will all follow them and hope they succeed.  They seem like really good kids.  We all have our biases, our favorites and non-favorites for whatever reason.  Sometimes those beliefs aren't even based in much reality but, truth is, I'm just not a big believer in either.  Ortiz is pushing 26 and I don't think he'll hit well enough to make a good MLB player.  There are lots of good glove, below-average IF bats around.  Hall has some concerns as well.  Great arm but he's not a starter in my opinion and I don't think he's Josh Hader either.  He's still a good bullpen piece, no doubt, but it's Corbin Burnes we're talking about.  Said another way... I don't know that Ortiz will have much more impact than a Urias and Mateo, guys we got for basically nothing, and nobody loves either of them.  I don't know that Hall will be much more effective than a Coulombe or Perez, two more guys who were just floating around.

As to Elias doing something like this... I've always been in the camp that he was capable but not able with JA hoarding money.  We may never know the exact truth there but this sure seems to confirm where the real problem was with adding impact/expensive players.

[Gofannon]

2 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

This was an absolutely excellent trade.  Kudos to Elias. You make this trade 100 times out of 100 when you are in the position the Os are in.

 

And truth be told, they could be in a similar position next season, where we have blocked prospects that are highly thought of but not untouchable.  

We could absolutely follow this model next year where we extend our young guys, ride out Bradish and GrayRod, and make a fair trade for a top-notch one-year rental of a starting pitcher with our blocked prospects that aren't off limits.  This concept wouldn't last forever - our minor-league depth will graduate and we'll need to replenish it - but if you have a line-up with Adley/Gunnar/Holliday/Cowser/Kjerstad/Mayo/Basallo/Westburg down the line, we may view our future Ortiz/Hall equivalents as trade chips more than future Orioles.

[Sanfran327]

Trades are always a little bittersweet. I'm sure 99% of us are very happy about landing Burnes, and more than a few of us are not totally thrilled about the pieces we gave up to get him. But to me, it still comes down to trading a bullpen arm (sure, a BP arm with a very high ceiling) and a guy that probably didn't really have a starting role here for a guy that's finished T10 in NL Cy Young voting each of the last 4 years, including winning one of them. The draft pick kinda made me wince a little, but that's how it goes. Maybe they draft a future HOFer with that pick, and maybe they draft a bust. I'm still happy that we addressed our #1 need in a BIG way, (and while no offense to them) not in a Kyle Gibson or Jack Flaherty kind of way. 

[dystopia]

My gut reaction was the first option because I was surprised they didn't have to give up more, but given how easily pitchers get injured these days and that Burnes is a FA after this year, I'd say it's a much tougher choice between options 1 and 2. 

[Hank Scorpio]

I think without context you could argue that it’s a lopsided trade in Milwaukee’s favor…

…but you’d have to be a pretty wet blanket to argue that.

Let’s enjoy the fact that this organization will be going into the 2024 season as a force to be reckoned with. This moment in time is one most of us have never had the luxury of appreciating.

A few of us saw the dominant O’s of the early 70’s. Some of us remember Joe Morgan lining out to one of our owners to cap off our last World Series. Most of us remember the Bedard trade. Probably all of us remember Delmon Young. 

But where this organization is right now? Coming off of an AL East pennant, plugging one of the best pitchers in the game into our already decent rotation, with generational talent knocking on the door?

Sheeeeeeeiiiit….. this was a hell of a move and I’m super grateful that it feels like they did the exact right thing at the exact right time for a very digestible price.

LET’S EFFING GO!!!!!

[CaptainRedbeard]

It’s a fantastic trade given they cashed in on Ortiz at a fair price and it dramatically improves their 2024 chances. Ortiz had nowhere to play here and they got value equivalent to his prospect status. Despite the prior logjam, it didn’t make sense to sell guys for less than their full value just to alleviate it, and they managed to not do that in this deal.

It is also amazing that Elias was able to pull this off considering the lack of availability of SP in the trade market this offseason. 

Hall’s inclusion is scary, because I’m a huge believer in his ability and the Brewers are making the right move to try him again as a SP. But the risk factor with Hall is not his ability, but his durability. I think he can be an effective SP but he’s had myriad injuries in his career.

You have to give up something additional to Ortiz in order to get Burnes, and Hall makes more sense than many other options. It’s quite possible we look back at this as selling high on Hall because he’s still viewed now as a potential SP / elite RP, but his injury history de-rails him or he ends up losing the small sample velo/mechanics/command improvements he made at the end of last season. 

Losing Hall out of the pen is definitely a blow, but they do have other good lefty options which can be more challenging to replace. They could definitely use Brasier or another arm of at least that caliber. If they don’t get one now they will have opportunity at the trade deadline - RPs go for high prices then but that’s the one thing that is always reliably available at the deadline. You can’t bank on getting a SP in the same way and there’s a lot of competition for the SP that are available then. 

[Flash- bd]

2 hours ago, Morgan423 said:

I don't think that this is a trade that has any losers.  For them, they get two guys who may shape up into big contributors for them, who had limited opportunities in our structure and needed new space to take their next steps. 

And for us, we get one of the best starters in baseball to join what is now a complete and deadly rotation. 

And this one isn't going to hurt as bad as, say, the Andrew Miller trade, where we lost a not-well-replaced, decent young starting pitcher for five seasons, to obtain a guy who threw fewer than 30 innings for us and barely moved the needle.  These days, we have a stacked minor league system, a player development team that has most guys performing at max level, and now an owner who likely won't cheap out on us doing the things needed to absorb trades like this and stay healthy.  This is a dream time to be a fan, and I'm hoping no one wakes me up.

Yeah, I agree for the most part. It's really hard to be anything but chuffed with how the organization is at the moment! 

[jamalshw]

7 minutes ago, dystopia said:

My gut reaction was the first option because I was surprised they didn't have to give up more, but given how easily pitchers get injured these days and that Burnes is a FA after this year, I'd say it's a much tougher choice between options 1 and 2. 

This is were I sit on it. I probably would've given up more...but given the considerations you called out, I don't think it would've been much more. A lottery ticket type, back end of the top-30 type throw in or two probably would've still been okay, but not much beyond that. 

[wildbillhiccup]

I voted "Love It". In a perfect world we'd sign one more SP, but as long as Grayson progresses and Means stays relatively healthy we should be fine. I do think we need a sold RP to replace Hall though. Of the remaining FAs (slim pickings) my preference would be Stanek or Hudson. Or maybe Elias could flip Mateo or Urias for a RP. The Guardians could use a SS upgrade and they have a solid bullpen. They might be a good trade fit. 

[Roy Firestone]

9 hours ago, Frobby said:

I know the trade has already been discussed in great detail in the other thread and the reaction is overwhelmingly positive, but I always like to get people on record in a poll after a big move to make it easy to look back later.  So, what’s your vote?

My own opinion hovers between options 2 and 3, with a little of 4 splashed in.  I generally hate giving up 12 years of control for one.  And, it could blow up in our face if Burnes gets hurt or tails off suddenly, and Hall and Ortiz become good contributors.

Still, I can’t deny that Burnes has been a complete stud for several years and could be exactly what we needed to go from good to great in 2024.   I’ll be thrilled to watch him pitch every five days.   He’s a much better bet than Cease, even if it’s only for a year.

In the end, it’s giving up Hall that we could regret.  Ortiz was not going to get much opportunity in Baltimore, and now he’ll get the chance to shine that he deserves, and I’ll be really happy for Ortiz if he goes on to be a good major league regular.  I won’t really rue his departure.   But I will rue Hall’s departure if he becomes either a good starter or a Hader-like reliever.  And, the fact that I’ve been following him for 7 years and won’t get the payoff will sting.  It’ll be worth it if Burnes shines and gets us deep into the postseason, but I could end up hating it if Burnes is one and done and his presence doesn’t get us any further than last year. 

I don’t sweat the pick, which we’ll get back if Burnes has a healthy year and turns down a QO.

One final positive is that we don’t have to hear this crap about how Elias can’t pull off a major trade.  This one’s huge and we can put that BS to bed.  


 

Talking to Palmer last night he said he thinks this is a tremendous deal, though a  year rental...Burnes strikes out a ton of hitter, has a low walk number and is a big, strong, young, TOR starter. I knew Ortiz was expendable because we have a surplus of young infield talent...but D.L. Hall was the arm I hated to lose...but you have to give up a lot to get a lot...and we got A LOT.If he stays healthy Burnes gives us a very solid rotation, and dont forget, we get a healthy Means and a full year of Grayson...suddenly I think we have a top rotation in the AL , maybe not the best...but very close...it all depends on health...

Edited February 2 by Roy Firestone

[wildbillhiccup]

14 minutes ago, dystopia said:

My gut reaction was the first option because I was surprised they didn't have to give up more, but given how easily pitchers get injured these days and that Burnes is a FA after this year, I'd say it's a much tougher choice between options 1 and 2. 

I've heard several reporters say some version of the same thing (i.e., the other MLB teams must be kicking themselves for not being involved / beating the Orioles offer) so that seems to be the sentiment of a lot of folks. 

[Roy Firestone]

Just now, Roy Firestone said:

Talking to Palmer last night he said he thinks this is a tremendous deal, though a year year rental...Burnes strikes out a ton of hitters, has a low walk number and is a big, strong, young, TOR starter. I knew Ortiz was expendable because we have a surplus of young infield talent...but D.L. Hall was the arm I hated to lose...but you have to give up a lot to get a lot...and we got A LOT.If he stays healthy Burnes gives us a very solid rotation, and dont forget, we get a healthy Means and a full year of Grayson...suddenly I think we have a top rotation in the AL , maybe not the best...but very close...it all depends on health...