The worm has turned...

[rp0806]

Burnett has some of the best "stuff" in baseball, but his career thus far has been good, not great. I wanted the Orioles to sign him and would have loved to have seen what Mazzone could do with him.

That being said, ultimately none of us really know if we could have signed him. Would he have come here if we'd offer $60 million over 5 years? Maybe, but there's no guarantee. And then you're talking about tying up a LOT of money with a starter who hasn't had a single great year (career high in ERA+ is 121). $55-60 million could get us another star player next year, or a couple of very good players.

Anway, we didn't sign him, so there's not much point in dwelling on it.

[TonySoprano]

I'm just expressing my own opinion, which was apparently shared by the front office which wasn't willing to take that risk either.

Unless some here know better then them

Was it the front office or was it the owner who publicly complained about the cost? I'm just expressing my opinion as well.

[utvolzac]

And we still would have needed one.

Burnett was the third best starter on his own team, has an injury history, and when he had the chance to prove himself down the stretch went 0-6 in his last seven decisions.

I'd rather go with what we have then pay at least $11 million for five years, if not more if the Blue Jays continued to bid, for potential.

Third best starter on his own team, and look who is a head of him Beckett & Dontrelle, not exactly some no talent scrubs. Regardless of what his rank was on the Marlins, he'd be clearly the #1 starter on OUR team.

Everybody has an injury history, especially pitchers. If you shy away from anyone who's ever been hurt, your never going to improve. Eventually you have to take some kind of chance on a guy.

Yes he costs and arm and a leg, but I'd much rather see some of the money we got from the Nats settlement going towards a player like Burnett, rather than just sitting around lining Angelos' pockets.

I trust Mazzone's opinion as more than a "hunch". Considering the Braves and Marlins are in the same division, Mazzone has seen plenty of Burnett to evaluate him.

[mobico]

I would think that with Birds madly flying from all different directions (in this thread alone!), the worm would be frantically turning to and fro.:SuN049:

[mobico]

Burnett has an injury history, and when he had the chance to prove himself down the stretch went 0-6 in his last seven decisions.

Not only that, but he stinks at math.

[underdog]

Did you ever hear the expression that one man's trash is another man's treasure? Being the "third best" starter on the Marlins doesn't mean he would be that low on the Orioles rotation. Ponson was our de facto "ace" based on his salary and if he makes the Cardinals rotation, it will be as the 5th starter.

Since you mentioned the Cardinals, Tony, they will be in an interesting situation if Ponson and Anthony Reyes both pitch well this ST. They will have 6 starters. After this season, Mulder and Jason Marquis will be FA's. I understand they want to sign Mulder, but would let Marquis walk. If they are heavy on SP, they figure to try to trade him. Are we interested, and if so, for whom? Javy doesn't seem to be a fit (sorry SG).

[Witchy_Chick]

Since you mentioned the Cardinals, Tony, they will be in an interesting situation if Ponson and Anthony Reyes both pitch well this ST. They will have 6 starters. After this season, Mulder and Jason Marquis will be FA's. I understand they want to sign Mulder, but would let Marquis walk. If they are heavy on SP, they figure to try to trade him. Are we interested, and if so, for whom? Javy doesn't seem to be a fit (sorry SG).

I don't know how much of a fit Marquis is with us -- and Leo.

My Braves-fan coworker has repeatedly mentioned to me about Leo's no nonsense attitude with his pitchers. When he was in Atlanta, Braves fans apparently could "read between the lines" of who was buying into and listening to Leo, and who was not.

According to my coworker, the (often young) stubborn non-listeners were traded away -- and fairly quickly. Past Atlanta guys who fit this MO include Bruce Chen, Odalis Perez, and Jason Marquis.

Now, I'm not saying that Marquis still has that stubborn streak. Nor am I saying that Mazzone would put the kibosh on a deal. But, there was a reason Atlanta -- and Leo -- gave up on Marquis.

Maybe some of our Georgia friends can shed some light?

Witchy

[RShack]

My Braves-fan coworker has repeatedly mentioned to me about Leo's no nonsense attitude with his pitchers. When he was in Atlanta, Braves fans apparently could "read between the lines" of who was buying into and listening to Leo, and who was not... stubborn non-listeners were traded away -- and fairly quickly.

Maybe some of our Georgia friends can shed some light? Witchy

Leo never, ever bad-mouthed anybody in public. He never, ever made an issue of anything in the press. (Hell, it was pretty rare that he even made a trip to the mound.) He would sometimes talk about a guy's pitches, or about what a guy needed to do. But always in a constructive manner. He could be quite patient, giving guys lots of chances and working with them to get it right. But he didn't seem interested in babysitting anybody. The pitchers that stayed got better than they had been. The pitchers that left, left. There was never any overt clue of any kind about exactly why a pitcher left. Was it Schuerholz? Was it Leo? Your answer depends on your tea leaves. Whatever happened was handled in a very professional manner. Players who left usually got compliments on their way out the door. 'Hard to argue with that way of doing things. 'Hard to argue with the results.

Having said that, it tells us nothing about why Chen or anybody else got gone. A decision that they weren't gonna cut it? The need to clear a roster spot for somebody else? Their worth in a trade? We never really knew. Of course, everybody had their opinion based on the circumstances. It was pretty much a closed-mouth operation. Everybody said the right things. Nobody said the wrong things. There were no "unnamed sources". The FO's job was to provide ATL with a collection of players that could win. Bobby's job was to use those players to finish in 1st place. Leo's job was to have his pitching staff playing over its head. Our job was to watch good baseball. Pretty simple, huh?

EDIT: I left ATL in '99. I don't know if any of this changed later. I still follow them, but it's different if you're not there.

[mweb]

The question is, is it worth a $55 million risk because our pitching coach was anxious to work with him?

It is one thing to talk that way about our own pitchers, or retreads who are cheap and he has a track record of turning around. It's another to overspend on a hunch.

Besides, I'm not at all saying I know more then Mazzone, and I'm sure he would be insulted that you are insinuating that. I'm just expressing my own opinion, which was apparently shared by the front office which wasn't willing to take that risk either.

Unless some here know better then them

Doubt you'd be singing the same tune if we did sign him.

[Dipper9]

Third best starter on his own team, and look who is a head of him Beckett & Dontrelle, not exactly some no talent scrubs. Regardless of what his rank was on the Marlins, he'd be clearly the #1 starter on OUR team.

Everybody has an injury history, especially pitchers. If you shy away from anyone who's ever been hurt, your never going to improve. Eventually you have to take some kind of chance on a guy.

Yes he costs and arm and a leg, but I'd much rather see some of the money we got from the Nats settlement going towards a player like Burnett, rather than just sitting around lining Angelos' pockets.

I trust Mazzone's opinion as more than a "hunch". Considering the Braves and Marlins are in the same division, Mazzone has seen plenty of Burnett to evaluate him.

Just because Burnett would have been the #1 starter on OUR team is NOT a reason to plunk down $55 million on him. BY your argument, EVERY team has a #1 starter. So does that mean that every team should be paying their number 1 starter 11 million per season? Would I like to have Burnett in black and orange? YES! Would I have paid him 11 million per season. NOPE! I am giddy over the potential of our starters. Say what you want about wins and losses meaning nothing, but he has pitched on 2 world championship teams in Florida, and yet never won over 12 games? THAT DOES speak volumes to me!

[Sapper]

Our farm system is showing promise

Our front office is begin aggresive

Our players are kicking ass in the WBC

Our staff is responding to Mazzone (just read the interviews)

The perception that guys dont want to come here is gone.

There is so much talent on this team that is not "crazy" to think this team can be exciting this year and even stay in the WC race.

Despite what some, actually very few, posters seem to feel, this team is headed in the right direction. What a difference 5 months can make.

Still think so?

[camdenyardblues]

The question is, is it worth a $55 million risk because our pitching coach was anxious to work with him?

No. It's that Rick Peterson said to Duquette when the Mets acquired Zambrano.

[The Wedge]

Was it really necessary to bump this, Sapper? Just to prove a point you've been hammering home in your own threads? Salt in an open wound much?

[TonySoprano]

*grabs popcorn*

[Crazy O]

*grabs popcorn*

*Sits down next to you * " You's gonna share that?"