Will the O’s trade away a position player before Opening Day?

[Sports Guy]

8 minutes ago, DirtyBird said:

Not as much of a waste as a roster with Kjerstad AND O’Hearn

Yea it is…provided that they actually use those 2 players properly. So many guys can get 300-500 at bats this year (well using that as a plan to entering the year..injuries and performance will alter it) and those 2 are part of that. 
 

Mateo has no role outside of very fast guy. 

[DirtyBird]

5 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Yea it is…provided that they actually use those 2 players properly. So many guys can get 300-500 at bats this year (well using that as a plan to entering the year..injuries and performance will alter it) and those 2 are part of that. 
 

Mateo has no role outside of very fast guy. 

With that plan, you are just overlapping guys that do the same thing. It’s not bringing any extra value to the roster or lineups.

[interloper]

1 minute ago, DirtyBird said:

With that plan, you are just overlapping guys that do the same thing. It’s not bringing any extra value to the roster or lineups.

Well it means you can stack a lineup against a RHP with Kjerstad DHing, O'Hearn playing 1B, Cowser in LF, etc. 

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, DirtyBird said:

With that plan, you are just overlapping guys that do the same thing. It’s not bringing any extra value to the roster or lineups.

Well that’s extremely incorrect. First of all, over time, players will establish themselves as better than others.

Secondly, it keeps guys rested and doesnt push guys into playing time they really shouldn’t have.

And lastly, it gives the young kids at bats and experience they need for the long term while also helping the team now.

[RZNJ]

8 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Well that’s extremely incorrect. First of all, over time, players will establish themselves as better than others.

Secondly, it keeps guys rested and doesnt push guys into playing time they really shouldn’t have.

And lastly, it gives the young kids at bats and experience they need for the long term while also helping the team now.

Incorrect?   No, extremely incorrect.   Is there any other kind?

[CaptainRedbeard]

Urias is a much better player than Mateo. But, if they are going to eventually have all of Gunnar, Holliday, Westburg and Mayo on the team, with Mayo playing some 3B, Mateo could still serve as a pinch runner/defensive replacement (e.g. at SS, pushing Gunnar to 3B and Westburg/Mayo to 1B, or in the OF). 

It’s not a critical role or anything, but Mateo could contribute more in that capacity than Urias would with a roster spot in the same situation. With those 4 guys we really don’t need another player to make starts in the infield, and especially so if Norby is still going to be around in AAA or ultimately carving out a right bench bat LF/2B role. 

They need to trade Urias eventually, but Mateo could still hang around. The problem is Hyde still likes to make sure every bench player still gets a handful of starts, so if they keep Mateo he’s going to end up starting way more games than he should. If he’s a good CF maybe it will be there and not in the infield, which wouldn’t be as bad. 

[Aristotelian]

10 minutes ago, interloper said:

Well it means you can stack a lineup against a RHP with Kjerstad DHing, O'Hearn playing 1B, Cowser in LF, etc. 

 

19 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Mateo has no role outside of very fast guy. 

Setting aside service time etc. I've got our RHP lineup as:

Starters: Ruschman C, Mountcastle 1B, Holliday 2B, Mayo 3B, Gunnar SS, Hays LF, Mullins CF, Cowser RF, Santander DH

Bench locks: McCann, Westburg

Bench bubble (need 2 of 3): Mateo, O'Hearn, Kjerstad

One spot goes to a lefty bat, either O'Hearn or Kjerstad. They could push Mountcastle to the bench vs RHP, but if you add them both they would then push Hays to the bench.

For that last spot, the question is whether "very fast guy" (and defensive sub at any position) is more important than Kjerstad's platoon advantage over Hays. I'm not seeing that yet, especially when you consider Hays' defense. As much as I agree that I don't see much of a role for Mateo, I also don't see the need for another lefty bat. With the above lineup, you're not really pinch hitting for any of our top nine. Having Westburg essentially as your only defensive sub would be really limiting. So yeah, I still like Mateo in that defensive/speed role.

The biggest problem with sticking with Mateo is that Hyde will be tempted to use him more in more of a platoon role than a sub. I hope that's not the case this year. 

 

 

 

[Aristotelian]

Edit: Urias should be on the bench bubble list above. I don't see a role for him either.

[foxfield]

34 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Yea it is…provided that they actually use those 2 players properly. So many guys can get 300-500 at bats this year (well using that as a plan to entering the year..injuries and performance will alter it) and those 2 are part of that. 
 

Mateo has no role outside of very fast guy. 

It looks more and more that this is true, but his role really may be no more than a place mark for one of the rookies to buy time.

[Sports Guy]

6 minutes ago, foxfield said:

It looks more and more that this is true, but his role really may be no more than a place mark for one of the rookies to buy time.

Right..which is what I said.  I have said all offseason that Mateo has a role early on if you send down Holliday. 
 

He is then your primary back up SS and probably sees time vs lefties.

I was told something this weekend about how the FO sees Holliday.  Based off of what was told to me, it’s no wonder why they have been saying all offseason that he will get a real chance to make the team.

That said, I’m still skeptical that it happens.

If I were to bet money on a roster on OD, Urias and Mateo would be on it and neither Holliday nor Mayo would be on it (assuming it’s 13 position players).

I think Adley, McCann, Ryan squared, Urias, Mateo, Gunnar, Westburg, Mullins, Santander, Hays, Cowser and McKenna or Stowers(probably McKenna) is the most likely 13.

In that scenario, Mateo makes sense to keep for now.

But if Holliday is on this team, you can’t justify keeping him with a 4 man bench.

[Aristotelian]

13 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Right..which is what I said.  I have said all offseason that Mateo has a role early on if you send down Holliday. 
 

He is then your primary back up SS and probably sees time vs lefties.

I was told something this weekend about how the FO sees Holliday.  Based off of what was told to me, it’s no wonder why they have been saying all offseason that he will get a real chance to make the team.

That said, I’m still skeptical that it happens.

If I were to bet money on a roster on OD, Urias and Mateo would be on it and neither Holliday nor Mayo would be on it (assuming it’s 13 position players).

I think Adley, McCann, Ryan squared, Urias, Mateo, Gunnar, Westburg, Mullins, Santander, Hays, Cowser and McKenna or Stowers(probably McKenna) is the most likely 13.

In that scenario, Mateo makes sense to keep for now.

But if Holliday is on this team, you can’t justify keeping him with a 4 man bench.

My guess is Holliday makes it, Urias keeps Mayo's spot warm for a month or two. Holliday just has too strong of a chance to finish in the top 2 for ROY, so might as well give us a shot at the draft pick. 

I don't see what advantage McKenna has over Mateo unless you think Mateo really can't play OF.  

[spleen1015]

It's gonna be shameful when Holliday and Mayo don't both make the OD roster. That's based on ST so far, but there's no reason to believe they'll start playing worse. I think Holliday is even getting better as ST goes on. He's adapting and getting better.

I 100% believe Holliday is on the OD roster at this point. He's hit very well. There's no reason for him not to be. After Elias said he would be given every opportunity to make the team, he's proven he belongs.

Mayo deserves it as well, but I think he gets sent down. They don't want 2 prospects without MLB experience going through growing pains at the same time.

It's pretty likely that Elias has already been trying to makes some moves. He's just getting what he thinks is a good deal yet.

[Sports Guy]

6 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

My guess is Holliday makes it, Urias keeps Mayo's spot warm for a month or two. Holliday just has too strong of a chance to finish in the top 2 for ROY, so might as well give us a shot at the draft pick. 

I don't see what advantage McKenna has over Mateo unless you think Mateo really can't play OF.  

Why would any of us think Mateo can play CF?  

[foxfield]

14 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Right..which is what I said.  I have said all offseason that Mateo has a role early on if you send down Holliday. 
 

He is then your primary back up SS and probably sees time vs lefties.

I was told something this weekend about how the FO sees Holliday.  Based off of what was told to me, it’s no wonder why they have been saying all offseason that he will get a real chance to make the team.

That said, I’m still skeptical that it happens.

If I were to bet money on a roster on OD, Urias and Mateo would be on it and neither Holliday nor Mayo would be on it (assuming it’s 13 position players).

I think Adley, McCann, Ryan squared, Urias, Mateo, Gunnar, Westburg, Mullins, Santander, Hays, Cowser and McKenna or Stowers(probably McKenna) is the most likely 13.

In that scenario, Mateo makes sense to keep for now.

But if Holliday is on this team, you can’t justify keeping him with a 4 man bench.

Yeah, I think we agree.  I am still of the opinion that Holliday makes the roster on OD.  Mostly, because he looks ready, and also because keeping him down long enough to ensure he cannot finish high in the ROY vote could take longer than needed.

Adley came up in May and it wasn't late enough...

I think you have 4 keystones in Adley, Gunnar, Holliday and Mayo.   You may not be able to extend them all, but it may be worth trying with new ownership.  

And personally, I think most of the valuable pieces that we would like to move on from, are not very valuable from a trade standpoint.  So regarding the non-pitchers, I don't think options really provide much.  Holliday and Mayo, appear to be good enough to be in the mix for ROY and Super 2 and I just don't see either staying down until September.

If you really want to game the system Kjerstad and Cowser make more sense...but I don't see why they wouldn't be up in April/May.

Lastly...so what were you told about Holliday?

[Sports Guy]

17 minutes ago, foxfield said:

Yeah, I think we agree.  I am still of the opinion that Holliday makes the roster on OD.  Mostly, because he looks ready, and also because keeping him down long enough to ensure he cannot finish high in the ROY vote could take longer than needed.

Adley came up in May and it wasn't late enough...

I think you have 4 keystones in Adley, Gunnar, Holliday and Mayo.   You may not be able to extend them all, but it may be worth trying with new ownership.  

And personally, I think most of the valuable pieces that we would like to move on from, are not very valuable from a trade standpoint.  So regarding the non-pitchers, I don't think options really provide much.  Holliday and Mayo, appear to be good enough to be in the mix for ROY and Super 2 and I just don't see either staying down until September.

If you really want to game the system Kjerstad and Cowser make more sense...but I don't see why they wouldn't be up in April/May.

Lastly...so what were you told about Holliday?

It was more of a general comment on how they view his talent vs other top guys they have had. Let’s just say they like him a lot.