Jump to content

Jackson Holliday 2024


btdart20

Recommended Posts

22 minutes ago, OnlyOneOriole said:

So was Manny.  So was Gunnar.  So were other great players.  They all flashed at that age. 

 

For a guy like JH who has been trained to play baseball his entire life?

 

He looked bad.

Gunnar made his ML debut at age 21. Holliday is ahead of him offensively at age 19 and age 20.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

25 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

All this Holliday talk made me think of Greg Jeffries.   Who remembers the Mets minor league SS phenom who tore through A and AA, debuted at 20, had a nice long career?

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/j/jeffegr01.shtml

 

Similarly built, Jeffries was also a bit defensively challenged. He did end up having a nice career, just not the HoF career some thought when he burned through the minors.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

BTW in relation to what I was saying earlier about 'pro' athletes who really are not athletes but kind of specialized robots? Just good at one specific thing?

Watch Reed Shepard throw out the baseball last night for the Yankees/Mets game.  This is a guy who was a great shooter (3 pointer mainly) as a freshman at Kentucky this past year....and yet he could barely throw a baseball.  That is not an athlete.

That is a person who has been trained to play one thing his entire life.   A shooter in Bball.

BTW his mom is......different looking haha. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 minutes ago, OnlyOneOriole said:

Again, you really need to look at players that have somewhat reached their ceiling at age 20?  Like JH imo....and others like GH who were just starting to blossom at that age. 

Saying Holliday has reached his ceiling is a completely absurd and unintelligent position to take.  
 

And you said Gunnar showed at age 20. I’m guessing you never saw him at age 20, so that was just a factually incorrect statement for you to make.

  • Upvote 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

54 minutes ago, Chromehill said:

Gunnar was batting .201 on June 1st of last year.  Lots of fans wanted to send him back to the minors.  Goes on to win ROY and an outstanding chance to be MVP this year.

I look at things maybe differently from others because I I have played high level HS and college sports.  And 2 pro sports. 

I know what I am looking at when it comes to athleticism.  

I am a good evaluator.    From sports to horses to stocks to many things. 

For example there is a reason why I make mid 6 to low 7 figures every year daytrading.  Because evaluating a public company's merits is something I have done since I was a kid.   I love the business world. I used to travel every summer as a kid to Chicago to be a runner for one of the greatest Options traders I have ever known.   A neighbor of ours at Higgins Lake MI. 

 

RIP MG.  https://lifestorytc.com/obituaries/michael-w-groves.138326

  • Haha 1
  • Downvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, OnlyOneOriole said:

BTW in relation to what I was saying earlier about 'pro' athletes who really are not athletes but kind of specialized robots? Just good at one specific thing?

Watch Reed Shepard throw out the baseball last night for the Yankees/Mets game.  This is a guy who was a great shooter (3 pointer mainly) as a freshman at Kentucky this past year....and yet he could barely throw a baseball.  That is not an athlete.

That is a person who has been trained to play one thing his entire life.   A shooter in Bball.

BTW his mom is......different looking haha. 

Are bowlers athletes?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, yark14 said:

Are bowlers athletes?

Not at all haha. I mean kind of, but on the low end of the totem pole.   I comment all of the time that bowlers may be the worst looking group of 'athletic people' and I used that term loosely, that I have ever seen.  I think most bowlers are people who couldn't excel at any other sports.   Everytime I walk into a bowling alley for a league or a tourney I am always struck by how unathletic most players look. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, SemperFi said:

JH would likely be a plus CF given what we know about him but it will take reps otherwise you're giving up outs and advances.  FWIW-Slotting JH into CF would run somewhat counter intuitive to drafting EBJ and Josenberger (who really only provide value in CF) in the last draft.

If  EBJ develops? Sure. You can always package him or Josenberger.

However, think about Betts, a superior athlete who’s now moved back to the IF where he started after becoming a GG OF in right. He was blocked at 2B by Pedroia when he came up and then they decided he was too good in RF to move back, but he was always capable. The Orioles could do the same with JH if and when it’s apparent. He’s talented enough to play CF and move back to the dirt is necessary.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

Mike Trout was bad at 19.  Yount was bad at 18, 19, 20.  George Brett hit .125 at age 20 in 41 plate appearances.  Brooks Robinson was bad from 18-21.  Mays struggled in his first 30-50 at bats at age 20.  Adrian Beltre wasn't good at 19.  Bench was bad at 19.  Ripken hit .128 at age 20 in '81.  

There are others I'm forgetting.  Yeah, he looked bad.  Not every player that turned out to be an all-time great flashed at that age, that's just not true.  Plenty had a rough start and figured it out.

That's not to say that Holliday will figure it out.  It's not to say that he won't.  But if you're hoisting up examples of 20 year olds that have come up and flashed right away and saying that there's something wrong with Holliday because he didn't...there are just as many examples of other 20 year olds that didn't play well right away.  

Mantle

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Posts

    • Just a minor correction, Kimbrel is now 1 for 5 in 1-run save opportunities. I imagine you did this before the game yesterday.
    • Here are my grades for the pitchers, in order of innings pitched, with a 20 IP minimum.   Before looking individually, I note that the staff’s first half ERA was 3.37, 3rd in MLB.   The starters were at 3.33, 2nd best in MLB, while the relievers were at 3.43, 6th in MLB.   So for all the angst about our pitching staff, they were excellent in the first half.   I’ll give them an A, too. Corbin Burnes, 106.2 IP, 17 GS, 9-3, 2.28 ERA, 1.031 WHIP, 8.4 K/9. 4.13 K/BB, 2.5 rWAR, 2.3 fWAR: A.   We brought in Burnes to be an ace, and that’s exactly what he’s been.   One thing that’s impressed me is he hasn’t had even one truly bad game.  He’s thrown 5+ innings every time he’s taken the ball, and the only time he allowed 4 runs, it was in a game where he threw 7 IP.  You know that when Burnes is on the mound, the O’s have a good chance to win. Grayson Rodrigues, 82.1 IP, 14 GS, 9-3, 3.72 ERA, 1.239 WHIP, 9.7 K/9, 3.56 K/BB, 0.8 rWAR, 1.4 fWAR: B-.  Grayson has been very solid, but still has some growing to do.   My expectations were very high based on the second half of last season, and he hasn’t done quite as well as I expected.  Still, he can be dominant at times, and he’s been good more often than not.  I’m hoping to see more consistency in the second half. Cole Irvin, 77.0 IP, 13 GS, 2 GR, 6-4, 3.72 ERA, 1.312 WHIP, 6.3 K/9, 3.60 K/BB, -0.1 rWAR, 1.0 fWAR: B+.  At the outset of spring training, I wasn’t expecting Irvin to be in the rotation, but thanks to injuries to Kyle Bradish and John Means, there he was.   His ERA is with 0.02 of Grod’s, with a similar IP/start.   He gets a better grade than Grayson because my expectations were nowhere near as high.  I’d be thrilled if Irvin matched his first half in the second half. Albert Suarez, 53.1 IP, 9 GS, 7 GR, 3-2, 2.70 ERA, 1.331 WHIP, 7.3 K/9, 1.95 K/BB, 1.3 rWAR, 1.0 fWAR: A.   Simply put, I’d never heard of Suarez when we signed him, and I never expected him to play a significant role for this team.   So, making 9 starts and 7 relief appearances with a 2.70 ERA far exceeded my basically non-existent expectations.   Great half-season from Albert, and his second half got off to a nice start last night with a six-inning shutout. Dean Kremer, 50.0 IP, 9 starts, 3-4, 4.32 ERA, 1.270 WHIP, 8.8 K/9, 2.72 K/BB, -0.4 rWAR, 0.2 fWAR: C-.  Kremer looked brilliant and dominant at times, very hittable other times, sometimes in the same game.   I actually like his pitch repertoire this year better than the previous two, and feel like he’s pitched a little better than his numbers suggest.   Now he’s missed 7 starts with a triceps injury and his rehab starts haven’t gone very well, so I’m not sure what to expect in the second half.   We’re going to need him, and he’s going to need to improve on his first half performance. Keegan Akin, 41.2 IP, 34 GR, 2-0, 3.46 ERA, 0.960 WHIP, 9.7 K/9, 3.46 K/BB, 0.4 rWAR, 0.7 fWAR: B+.  Akin looked a lot like the version we saw in the first half of 2022.   He had a few poor outings but was solid most of the time.  What I love about Akin is the pace as which he works.  He wastes no time between pitches and he usually pounds the zone with strikes. Kyle Bradish, 39.1 IP, 8 starts, 2-0, 2.75 ERA, 1.068 WHIP, 12.1 K/9, 3.53 K/BB, 0.9 rWAR 1.3 fWAR: A*.   I put an asterisk by Bradish’s grade, because while he was excellent while he was here, his injury is tragic for this team.   I would have loved to see Bradish pitching Game 2 of a big playoff series.   If so, it will need to be in 2025 or 2026.   Jacob Webb, 35.0 IP, 38 GR, 1-4, 2.83 ERA, 1.171 WHIP, 9.0 K/9, 2.06 K/BB, 0.3 rWAR, 0.6 fWAR: A-.   I did not expect a lot out of Webb, so his 2.83 ERA comes as a surprise, and he has stranded 15 of 18 inherited runners, which is a spectacular ratio.  I can’t really say I’m confident when Webb enters a game, but he has surprised me most of the time. Yennier Cano, 33.1 IP, 38 GR, 3-2, 2.97 ERA, 1.320 WHIP, 8.6 K/9, 2.13 K/BB, 0.3 rWAR, -0.3 fWAR: B-.   I’d say Cano has done about what I expected.   He’s been a little homer prone, and has walked more batters than I would like.   When he’s on he's a ground ball machine, and it’s fun to watch him as a fielder, where he’s very agile either getting to slow rollers or covering 1B.   Craig Kimbrel, 28.1 IP, 32 GR, 5-2, 17 saves, 4 blown saves, 2.54 ERA, 0.988 WHIP, 13.3 K/9, 3.50 K/BB, 0.5 rWAR, 0.9 fWAR: B-.   Kimbrel has proven to be a little delicate, and loses effectiveness if he’s used too frequently.  His inability to hold runners is also kind of infuriating, and turns every leadoff baserunner into a serious threat to score, hence his 0-4 performance in 1-run save opportunities.   Still, his K rate is very good and he’s been dominant in a lot of games.  Overall, he’s done about what I expected him to do. Dillon Tate, 27.1 IP, 25 GR, 2-1, 3.62 ERA, 1.280 WHIP, 6.3 K/9, 2.11 K/BB, 0.0 rWAR, 0.2 fWAR: B-.  I didn’t really know what to expect from Tate this year after missing all of 2023 with injuries.   At times he has looked very good, especially when he has command of a devastating sweeper pitch that he has developed.   Other times, he’s very hittable.  Overall, he’s been useful, though there is room for improvement. Danny Coulombe, 26.0 IP, 29 GR, 1-0, 2.42 ERA, 0.615 WHIP, 9.7 K/9, 9.33 K/BB, 0.6 rWAR, 0.5 fWAR: A*.   There was some feeling that Coulombe would regress to the mean this year after putting up the best year of his career last season at age 33, but this year he’s been even better.  Look at that WHIP!  Look at that K/BB!   And on top of those numbers, he stranded all 13 runners he inherited.  His injury warrants the asterisk, and let’s hope the prognosis that he can return in September proves to be correct.  We’re going to miss him terribly in the interim. Cionel Perez,  22.2 IP, 24 GR, 1-0, 4.37 ERA, 1.279 WHIP, 7.9 K/9, 2.22 K/BB, -0.2 rWAR, 0.4 fWAR: B-.  I feel like Perez’s ERA is a little misleading.  He had a very bad first outing of the year in which he was pulled with an injury (0 IP, 2 ER), and one other stinker in mid-May (0.1 IP, 3 ER).  Since then, he’s pitched to a 2.89 ERA.  He’s also stranded 12 of the 15 runners he has inherited this season, which is excellent.   Overall, Perez has met my expectations to date. Cade Povich, 21.2 IP, 4 GS, 0-2, 4.15 ERA, 1.292 WHIP, 5.8 K/9, 1.40 K/BB, 0.2 rWAR, 0.2 fWAR: B+.  Thrust into the majors due to injuries, Povich has held his own and kept us in the games he’s pitched.  He’s gone at least 4.2 innings each time he’s pitched.   He hasn’t struck out as many batters as his AAA performance would suggest he is capable of, but to me, he has shown a lot of poise and looks ready to learn at the major league level.  I’m optimistic about how he’ll do in the second half. John Means, 20.2 IP, 4 GS, 2-0, 2.61 ERA, 0.871 WHIP, 7.0 K/9, 8.00 K/BB, 0.6 rWAR, 0.5 fWAR: A*.   Yikes, another gut punch!   Means looked really good in his brief return to the majors, but his elbow just would not cooperate.  Best wishes to John that his second surgery works better than the last one, and that he goes on to have a few productive years, whether in Baltimore or elsewhere. Overall, it's  been a very good first-half performance by our staff, but we’re going to have to do it in the second half without Bradish, Means and for the most part Coulombe, all of whom were great when they were on the mound in the first half.   Hopefully the rest of the guys will step up, and hopefully we’ll get some reinforcements before the trade deadline (is there a thread on that anywhere?  😉). Anyone strongly disagree with any of my grades?        
    • No way we don't exercise O'Hearn's option.  I have my blinders ready for the junk that'll be said.
    • Lorenzen has a 4.70 FIP. I hope they touch him up, he's been having much better results than he should have.
    • Deal with that then.  Mayo looks ahead of Holliday for 2024.  Maybe 2025 is different but let's start the adjustment period for October Mayo.
    • It's time to go for four in a row, and a series win.  Don't forget, tonight's game is on Fox. Let's do this! Transactions announced since last game: 06/27/24     Baltimore Orioles signed free agent RHP Burch Smith to a minor league contract. 06/27/24     Baltimore Orioles signed free agent 1B Niko Goodrum to a minor league contract.
  • Popular Contributors

×
×
  • Create New...