Passan: MLB Must Act Now on Pitching Injuries

[baltfan]

If you listen to Andrews, he is appalled by the number of young kids needing the surgery.  If baseball really wants to make a difference, they should address all of the travel ball and tournament stuff.  Forty years ago, kids weren't playing year round and playing 5-6 games in a weekend.  There is zero doubt that younger arms are more susceptible than older ones.  And the tournaments encourage abuse regardless of what supposed rules they have in place to protect the pitchers who then go out and pitch on Tuesday or Wednesday right afterwards.  

[Can_of_corn]

2 hours ago, baltfan said:

If you listen to Andrews, he is appalled by the number of young kids needing the surgery.  If baseball really wants to make a difference, they should address all of the travel ball and tournament stuff.  Forty years ago, kids weren't playing year round and playing 5-6 games in a weekend.  There is zero doubt that younger arms are more susceptible than older ones.  And the tournaments encourage abuse regardless of what supposed rules they have in place to protect the pitchers who then go out and pitch on Tuesday or Wednesday right afterwards.  

What can they do?  Release a sternly worded statement?  They are signing 16 year olds to contracts.

[baltfan]

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

What can they do?  Release a sternly worded statement?  They are signing 16 year olds to contracts.

They actually have a lot of control.  They issue recommendations now that are followed to a degree.  Teams can say that they are downgrading because of injury risk kids that play too much.  MLB can also get out to parents that they believe playing like that is harmful.  

[DrungoHazewood]

On 4/9/2024 at 6:40 AM, sportsfan8703 said:

We’ll probably see them tinker with the pitch clock and add another reliever spot for the MLB roster.  

I think that's probably right, and also utterly and completely ineffective and missing the point.

It couldn't be more clear that essentially the entire root cause is pitchers throwing every pitch like it's their last. Until they can incentivize pitchers and teams to not do that there will be no solution to the problem.

[DrungoHazewood]

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

What can they do?  Release a sternly worded statement?  They are signing 16 year olds to contracts.

I think a good start would be to ban anyone from pitching until they turn 24. It's coach pitch until you get out of college...

Obviously that's not going to happen. But I think some forward-thinking organization might take some halfway decent pitching prospects drafted at 18 or 22 but with clean bills of health and have them just not pitch for three years, maybe mess around as outfielders or whatever, and see what happens when they go back to pitching when their UCLs are mature at 25-26.

Edited April 13 by DrungoHazewood

[Explosivo]

Just now, DrungoHazewood said:

I think that's probably right, and also utterly and completely ineffective and missing the point.

It couldn't be more clear that essentially the entire root cause is pitchers throwing every pitch like it's their last. Until they can incentivize pitchers and teams to not do that there will be no solution to the problem.

Or if they re-embrace sticky stuff so it requires less wear on the pitchers elbows to generate spin. Spin is prized and those who can do so effectively and consistently are what MLB is looking for. Not only does it generate movement, it also hides the pitch to the batter. 
 

I honestly wouldn’t mind it if the batters were ok with it.

[DrungoHazewood]

Just now, Explosivo said:

Or if they re-embrace sticky stuff so it requires less wear on the pitchers elbows to generate spin. Spin is prized and those who can do so effectively and consistently are what MLB is looking for. Not only does it generate movement, it also hides the pitch to the batter. 
 

I honestly wouldn’t mind it if the batters were ok with it.

The genie is out of the bottle, you're not putting it back in. Re-legalize sticky stuff and pitchers will concentrate on throwing sweepers that break eight feet.

There is no incentive to not go for 100% effective 100% of the time. Listen to pitchers themselves talk - it's I'm going to do everything I possibly can to succeed in the majors, if I break that's just the risk I'm willing to take.

Somehow they have to incentivize throwing most pitches at 80% effort. The only thing I can think of is limit teams to eight pitchers on the active roster, and very few minor league transactions a year. Then an average starter has to throw 200+ innings, and that can't happen with today's approaches.

[btdart20]

4 hours ago, DrungoHazewood said:

I think that's probably right, and also utterly and completely ineffective and missing the point.

It couldn't be more clear that essentially the entire root cause is pitchers throwing every pitch like it's their last. Until they can incentivize pitchers and teams to not do that there will be no solution to the problem.

The last time Britt was on Rates and Barrells, they talked about having starters go 6 IP (maybe 7) or lose the DH as an incentive.  I don't think that will fly but that's the type of incentive that will push against the max velo/spin.

[Can_of_corn]

9 minutes ago, btdart20 said:

The last time Britt was on Rates and Barrells, they talked about having starters go 6 IP (maybe 7) or lose the DH as an incentive.  I don't think that will fly but that's the type of incentive that will push against the max velo/spin.

Deadening the ball so pitchers can actually pitch to contact will push against max velo/spin.

I think teams will stash an extra pinch hitter before they'd change their pitcher usage.

[DrungoHazewood]

22 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

Deadening the ball so pitchers can actually pitch to contact will push against max velo/spin.

I think teams will stash an extra pinch hitter before they'd change their pitcher usage.

I think no matter what solutions are attempted, it's going to be vexingly hard to fix because most pitchers will continue to throw as hard and with as much break as possible to get more outs. Even if the ball is dead, throwing hard and with max spin will mean your ERA is 2.00 instead of 3.00.

Half joking, but blame all this on the decision in 1884 to legalize overhand pitching. I suppose this is anecdotal, but underhand pitchers don't seem to get hurt at nearly the rate of overhand. Today's women's college softball pitchers' numbers look like Walter Johnson or Kid Nichols.

[Can_of_corn]

7 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

I think no matter what solutions are attempted, it's going to be vexingly hard to fix because most pitchers will continue to throw as hard and with as much break as possible to get more outs. Even if the ball is dead, throwing hard and with max spin will mean your ERA is 2.00 instead of 3.00.

Half joking, but blame all this on the decision in 1884 to legalize overhand pitching. I suppose this is anecdotal, but underhand pitchers don't seem to get hurt at nearly the rate of overhand. Today's women's college softball pitchers' numbers look like Walter Johnson or Kid Nichols.

I guess I'm just naturally optimistic but I'd like to think that if the number 8 and 9 guys combined for 9 HR on the season guys wouldn't be that worried about striking them out.

[Jagwar]

On 4/13/2024 at 1:34 PM, Can_of_corn said:

What can they do?  Release a sternly worded statement?  They are signing 16 year olds to contracts.

When I played EDRECO travel ball in the 70s and 80s, they only allowed a pitcher to throw one game a week. 

[Malike]

Was listening to someone on the radio, can't quite recall who it was who suggested deadening the ball to like the late 80's level. Guys like Judge would still hit HR's but 5'8" 2B would probably not be hitting 35 HR's a year. He posited it could help pitchers from having to think they need to throw 100 and would open the door for contact hitters who don't have big power to be valuable in the game. I'm sure it wouldn't be the sexy option, chicks dig the long ball.

[Can_of_corn]

21 minutes ago, Jagwar said:

When I played EDRECO travel ball in the 70s and 80s, they only allowed a pitcher to throw one game a week. 

Great, glad to hear it, but it wasn't because of MLB.

[DrungoHazewood]

1 hour ago, Malike said:

Was listening to someone on the radio, can't quite recall who it was who suggested deadening the ball to like the late 80's level. Guys like Judge would still hit HR's but 5'8" 2B would probably not be hitting 35 HR's a year. He posited it could help pitchers from having to think they need to throw 100 and would open the door for contact hitters who don't have big power to be valuable in the game. I'm sure it wouldn't be the sexy option, chicks dig the long ball.

I think the issue will always be that throwing 89 with an okay slider means Rich Dauer hits .256 with 8 homers, and throwing 100 with a wipeout sweeper means Rich Dauer hits .221 with 4 homers. Pitchers will almost always take .221 with 4 homers because hurt means you're rehabbing, bad means you're selling insurance.