Maintaining Shift w/ 2 Stikes

[DirtyBird]

We’ve been burned on this for runs a couple times already this year.

RH batter, pitcher gets ahead in count, and we are leaving gaping hole on the right side of the infield with 2B playing behind the bag.

Pitcher working away and batter makes a defensive swing poking a weak ground ball to the right side, drives in runs.

With a pitcher up the middle and a SS with great range, is this really the analytically correct positioning for the situation?

[ThisIsBirdland]

9 minutes ago, DirtyBird said:

We’ve been burned on this for runs a couple times already this year.

RH batter, pitcher gets ahead in count, and we are leaving gaping hole on the right side of the infield with 2B playing behind the bag.

Pitcher working away and batter makes a defensive swing poking a weak ground ball to the right side, drives in runs.

With a pitcher up the middle and a SS with great range, is this really the analytically correct positioning for the situation?

I definitely noticed it last night, Holliday was stacked right on top of Irvin with the 0-2 count. Your logic makes sense on the defensive nature of the at-bat at that point.

[Frobby]

In the post game interview, Irvin criticized himself for his choice of pitch and location in that situation.  

[emmett16]

 There was an anecdote in a book that I was reading a couple years ago about a pitcher who hated the shift and asked management not to put the shift on when he pitched.   So, management put together spray charts for the pitcher to review and told him he could position the players anywhere he wanted.  He reviewed, apologized, and told them to proceed as planned.  

I think all their positioning is by design and very detailed.  If a ball or two sneak through in a small sample size, that's bound to happen.  Over the length of the season, it will work more often than it fails.  

[DirtyBird]

Just now, Frobby said:

In the post game interview, Irvin criticized himself for his choice of pitch and location in that situation.  

I saw that, which is fine and what he should say publicly. He is not going to blame defensive positioning.

I believe Burnes allowed a run in a similar situation vs KC

 

[spleen1015]

4 minutes ago, Frobby said:

In the post game interview, Irvin criticized himself for his choice of pitch and location in that situation.  

I think he even mentioned that he shook off Adley and he shouldn't have.

To the OP, this same thing happened a few times last year and it left me wondering WTF are they doing?

[DirtyBird]

4 minutes ago, emmett16 said:

 There was an anecdote in a book that I was reading a couple years ago about a pitcher who hated the shift and asked management not to put the shift on when he pitched.   So, management put together spray charts for the pitcher to review and told him he could position the players anywhere he wanted.  He reviewed, apologized, and told them to proceed as planned.  

I think all their positioning is by design and very detailed.  If a ball or two sneak through in a small sample size, that's bound to happen.  Over the length of the season, it will work more often than it fails.  

Is an anecdote any different than a small sample size?

[ThisIsBirdland]

1 minute ago, DirtyBird said:

Is an anecdote any different than a small sample size?

Smallest of sample sizes.

[spleen1015]

I don't think anyone is questioning using the shift. It's the pitch calling when in the shift. Don't throw pitches that are supposed to be hit into the holes of the shift.

[emmett16]

6 minutes ago, DirtyBird said:

Is an anecdote any different than a small sample size?

Not when it's an anecdote about large sample sizes.  

[DirtyBird]

4 minutes ago, spleen1015 said:

I don't think anyone is questioning using the shift. It's the pitch calling when in the shift. Don't throw pitches that are supposed to be hit into the holes of the shift.

So he should only be throwing pitches that can be pulled by a righty in Fenway Park?

[Aristotelian]

Best guess is the hitters with pull tendencies still pull with two strikes. It's hard to hit 30 HR with a "choke up and put the ball in play approach" and I don't think hitters are coached to do that any more.  

[Frobby]

24 minutes ago, spleen1015 said:

I don't think anyone is questioning using the shift. It's the pitch calling when in the shift. Don't throw pitches that are supposed to be hit into the holes of the shift.

There’s some logic to that, but you also have to consider that the hitter will read the shift and then expect pitches in certain locations.   So, at times you will want to cross up the batter by pitching against the shift.  

[spleen1015]

34 minutes ago, DirtyBird said:

So he should only be throwing pitches that can be pulled by a righty in Fenway Park?

What's the purpose of the shift? If you're shifting thinking the batter is going to pull the ball, why are you throwing pitches when hit beat the shift?

If you don't want righties pulling the ball in Fenway Park, don't play the shift that way and don't throw pull-able pitches.

All of this especially with runners on 2nd and 3rd.