The 2024 Trade Deadline

[Greg Pappas]

16 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

Westburg in LF would at least make room for a Gunnar-Holliday-Mayo infield. If he could turn into a CF that would be a bonus. 

That's a good point.  CF isn't a must in this scenario, but just an OF spot.  Cowser can handle CF, so, yes, Westy in LF could work.

I just looked it up and interestingly, Westy has played LF in two games in his baseball career, and 5 times in RF (all 5 last year in Norfolk).  So, the idea isn't new.

Edited Tuesday at 19:59 by Greg Pappas

[FlaO'sFan]

[Malike]

2 hours ago, Greg Pappas said:

That's a good point.  CF isn't a must in this scenario, but just an OF spot.  Cowser can handle CF, so, yes, Westy in LF could work.

I just looked it up and interestingly, Westy has played LF in two games in his baseball career, and 5 times in RF (all 5 last year in Norfolk).  So, the idea isn't new.

Westy has a pretty weak arm for the OF. Even worse than Cedric.

[Aristotelian]

1 hour ago, FlaO'sFan said:

Wow, looks like even more of a journeyman than Suarez. His numbers actually look solid. I'd be curious to see him sooner rather than later.

[Greg Pappas]

3 minutes ago, Malike said:

Westy has a pretty weak arm for the OF. Even worse than Cedric.

What? What makes you say that? That's a bizarre take IMHO.  He has a strong arm, though not like Mayo or even Gunnar.  This is from his scouting report from MLB Pipeline back in 2021.

Here's what the experts at MLB Pipeline have to say about Westburg:

Scouting grades (20-80 scale)

HIT: 50
POWER: 50
RUN: 55
ARM: 55
FIELD: 50
OVERALL: 50

The arm strength is plus, leading some to believe he could be a plus defender at third base down the line. 

Edited Tuesday at 22:06 by Greg Pappas

[Malike]

2 minutes ago, Greg Pappas said:

What? What makes you say that? That's a bizarre take IMHO.

Cedric is the 42nd percentile in arm strength, Westburg is the 32nd percentile in arm strength. 

[Greg Pappas]

7 minutes ago, Malike said:

Cedric is the 42nd percentile in arm strength, Westburg is the 32nd percentile in arm strength. 

Link?  Are they being compared to others at their positions (CF and 3B)?  I could at least see that as being possible.  Cedric has a below average arm at best and a poor one based on my own observations from watching him for years.  So, again, this strikes me as just out of sorts.  I admit that it's mostly by scouting reports and my own eyes... so maybe I'm wrong.  Do others see it as I do or is it just me that thinks Westburg has a better arm than Mullins?

Edited Tuesday at 22:14 by Greg Pappas

[Malike]

8 minutes ago, Greg Pappas said:

Link?  Are they being compared to others at their positions (CF and 3B)?  I could at least see that as being possible.  Cedric has a below average arm at best and a poor one based on my own observations from watching him for years.  So, again, this strikes me as just out of sorts.  I admit that it's mostly by scouting reports and my own eyes... so maybe I'm wrong.  Do others see it as I do or is it just me that thinks Westburg has a better arm than Mullins?

Just go to statcast lol. I can't link it from my phone. Westburgs max throw this whole year is 84 mph, Cedrics is 89.

Edited Tuesday at 22:19 by Malike

[SilverRocket]

4 minutes ago, Malike said:

Just go to statcast lol. I can't link it from my phone. Westburgs max throw this whole year is 82 mph, Cedrics is 89

I don't think you can just compare infield vs outfield velocity like that. Outfield throws are faster because you get a running start. Percentiles are within their respective position. This page summarizes them all by position: https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/leaderboard/arm-strength

I can't tell from that how Westburg would stack up in the outfield but if there's someone who plays both infield and outfield and has velocities for both, that would be the best data point to see how it translates.

[SilverRocket]

3 minutes ago, SilverRocket said:

I can't tell from that how Westburg would stack up in the outfield but if there's someone who plays both infield and outfield and has velocities for both, that would be the best data point to see how it translates.

Chris Taylor and Kike Hernandez come to mind. Hernandez last year averaged 78.2mph as a 2B, 84.5 as SS and 87.0 as CF (small sample size). In 2021, he threw 79.8mph as a 2B and 90.4 as a CF. Second base throws are probably less demanding and therefore not the highest effort, so SS vs CF may be the better comparison. Or 3B vs any outfield spot, if anyone can think of an example with a good sample size.

[Malike]

8 minutes ago, SilverRocket said:

I don't think you can just compare infield vs outfield velocity like that. Outfield throws are faster because you get a running start. Percentiles are within their respective position. This page summarizes them all by position: https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/leaderboard/arm-strength

I can't tell from that how Westburg would stack up in the outfield but if there's someone who plays both infield and outfield and has velocities for both, that would be the best data point to see how it translates.

Even by that metric, there are 24 3B with better arms. He doesn't have a strong arm, it's obvious, he was 21st percentile last year at 2B.

[RZNJ]

34 minutes ago, Malike said:

Westy has a pretty weak arm for the OF. Even worse than Cedric.

Doubtful.  You can’t compare the average velocity of a 2B/3B to a CF.   

[Brooks The Great]

3 hours ago, Greg Pappas said:

That's a good point.  CF isn't a must in this scenario, but just an OF spot.  Cowser can handle CF, so, yes, Westy in LF could work.

I just looked it up and interestingly, Westy has played LF in two games in his baseball career, and 5 times in RF (all 5 last year in Norfolk).  So, the idea isn't new.

But why move Westburg to the outfield when he's a much better defensive infielder than Holliday, and when Holliday could just as easily convert to an OF? Holliday is around as fast as Westburg, so he'd have a better chance of converting to CF, as well as all 3 OF in general positions, without sacrificing infield defense.

Holliday is a mediocre defensive 2B at best, even worse at SS. I don't think a lot of casual fans realize that yet. 

Edited Tuesday at 22:53 by Brooks The Great

[Greg Pappas]

15 minutes ago, Brooks The Great said:

But why move Westburg to the outfield when he's a much better defensive infielder than Holliday, and when Holliday could just as easily convert to an OF? Holliday is around as fast as Westburg, so he'd have a better chance of converting to CF, as well as all 3 OF in general positions, without sacrificing infield defense.

Holliday is a mediocre defensive 2B at best, even worse at SS. I don't think a lot of casual fans realize that yet. 

I already discussed Holliday to CF, but was offering an alternative idea.  Turns out RZNJ brought this idea of Westy in CF up before.  

[Malike]

Seems that Tampa might be selling. Civale is heading to the Brewers.