Should Rubenstein relieve Mike Elias of his duties?

[1fingerwillie]

Just now, Can_of_corn said:

Huh?

How did I say anything close to that?

I think Angelos was super interested in a rebuilding plan that included slashing payroll as low as possible.

I do think that for the hard tank portion of the rebuild Elias would not have spent appreciably more money if it had been available to him.

Ok, so we agree that Angelos is the reason we have had close to the lowest payroll in the league the past few years.

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, 1fingerwillie said:

Ok, so we agree that Angelos is the reason we have had close to the lowest payroll in the league the past few years.

I wouldn't go that far.

We haven't seen any evidence that Elias is interested in long term contracts, and those are the type that generally boost payroll.

If Angelos sold in the spring of 2022 instead of 2024 I am not certain the payroll would be significantly higher. 

 

I will say that I personally believe that Angelos wanted a low payroll as the team was his main source of income.

Edited August 30 by Can_of_corn

[OriolesMagic83]

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

Oh, I'm not even saying John might not have been that stupid to believe it might.

As for payroll going up by 30M?

How much has revenue been going up?  Does that level of spending lead to the same level of profitability?

 

I do think it's likely payroll will go up.  But it isn't a lock.

If Rubenstein think he can be the good guy/clown owner w/ a bottom 5 payroll, I think he's in for a rude awakening.  Since he's already filthy rich, I happen to believe he didn't get into MLB ownership to be a city's villain. 

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

If Rubenstein think he can be the good guy/clown owner w/ a bottom 5 payroll, I think he's in for a rude awakening.  Since he's already filthy rich, I happen to believe he didn't get into MLB ownership to be a city's villain. 

Neither did Peter Angelos.

I've stated before that I think they end up around 20th going up and down a bit year to year.

I've not heard anything come from him that encourages me to think he'll be OK with losing money.

[sevastras]

15 minutes ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

If Rubenstein think he can be the good guy/clown owner w/ a bottom 5 payroll, I think he's in for a rude awakening.  Since he's already filthy rich, I happen to believe he didn't get into MLB ownership to be a city's villain. 

What are you even trying to say? You either need to word your thought better or not express your thoughts at all. 
We as a fan base have no idea at this point his spending or really his game plan moving forward. I don’t advocate it, however there is has been winning teams in the bottom 5 in payroll. As a fan, I want the team to win and don’t care if the owner loses money. As a logical person, there aren’t too many owners out there that win at all cost even if it is financially detrimental. Steinbrenner did it, however I think it was a genius long term plan of losing money upfront and building a “brand” or increasing the value of his investment long term. 

[OriolesMagic83]

1 hour ago, sevastras said:

What are you even trying to say? You either need to word your thought better or not express your thoughts at all. 
We as a fan base have no idea at this point his spending or really his game plan moving forward. I don’t advocate it, however there is has been winning teams in the bottom 5 in payroll. As a fan, I want the team to win and don’t care if the owner loses money. As a logical person, there aren’t too many owners out there that win at all cost even if it is financially detrimental. Steinbrenner did it, however I think it was a genius long term plan of losing money upfront and building a “brand” or increasing the value of his investment long term. 

I'm saying that Rubinstein is not going to be popular in Baltimore for long if he is seen as hoarding profits from the O's as a lot of people here think is going to happen.  Peter Angelos actually spent money at a decent rate in line w/ attendance and revenue, I think people were just turned off by his nasty personality.  I don't know if a Tampa Bay model will be popular in Baltimore, where you tear down and trade your stars every 3 or 4 years.  It's not popular in Tampa.  I guess we'll see in the offseason. 

[Low Country Bird]

While I'm not necessarily surprised due to who started this thread (who is someone who has never had anything positive to say about the organization), this may be the most asinine thread I've ever seen on this site (and I've been here a while).  When Elias was hired, we had a terrible MLB team, an even worse farm system and no international presence whatsoever.  Since he's taken over, he built the best farm system in MLB, finally provided us an international (i.e. Dominican) presence and in the last two seasons, we have the best record in MLB.  Despite a two month slump, largely due to injuries, we still have one of the best records in all of MLB and can easily win the AL East... AGAIN!

Good grief!  With fans like this, we don't deserve a WS title.  

[Explosivo]

4 minutes ago, Low Country Bird said:

While I'm not necessarily surprised due to who started this thread (who is someone who has never had anything positive to say about the organization), this may be the most asinine thread I've ever seen on this site (and I've been here a while).  When Elias was hired, we had a terrible MLB team, an even worse farm system and no international presence whatsoever.  Since he's taken over, he built the best farm system in MLB, finally provided us an international (i.e. Dominican) presence and in the last two seasons, we have the best record in MLB.  Despite a two month slump, largely due to injuries, we still have one of the best records in all of MLB and can easily win the AL East... AGAIN!

Good grief!  With fans like this, we don't deserve a WS title.  

Agreed. It honestly pissed me off. Go be fans of another team. Yall don’t deserve this.

[andymax]

I occasionally like to go to sites like NYYFans and Sons of Sam Horn when those teams are doing poorly because there are always threads like these and they're always so fun to read. I guarantee there are Yankee fans reading this and laughing their asses off at this weak doomer crap, keep up the good work.

[Explosivo]

9 minutes ago, andymax said:

I occasionally like to go to sites like NYYFans and Sons of Sam Horn when those teams are doing poorly because there are always threads like these and they're always so fun to read. I guarantee there are Yankee fans reading this and laughing their asses off at this weak doomer crap, keep up the good work.

Yes and they should. Hell, I’m laughing at yall as well. This place can be very good and knowledgeable but it is also a haven for miserable takes as well. The takes here are actually worse than what I see on X. Makes me think the folks here are primarily boomers.

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

1 hour ago, Explosivo said:

Agreed. It honestly pissed me off. Go be fans of another team. Yall don’t deserve this.

And there's some posters on the game threads recently who seem to be happy the Orioles have been playing mediocre ball the past couple months. Even when the team wins they only post something negative.

I'm not happy about the team's play this summer, but you would think it's 2007 from the way some posters are behaving.

[24fps]

13 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

Has every other organization made drafting college hitters their main selections in rounds 1-5? 

That's really my point. If you are going to use this draft strategy, then you have to hit on more of these guys. If you're not going to use much high draft capital on pitchers, you are going to have a wasteland of useable pitchers in the upper levels, and will be scanning the AAA opt out wire for pitchers. Unfortunately, with the way the Orioles use their relievers so often, these guys end up pitching in tie or one run games.

 

Actual question - at what point does the Orioles' efforts in the international amateur market start to become apparant?  I seem to recall that pitching was rumored to be a focus there.

[Pickles]

6 minutes ago, 24fps said:

Actual question - at what point does the Orioles' efforts in the international amateur market start to become apparant?  I seem to recall that pitching was rumored to be a focus there.

Basallo is probably the best international prospect this franchise has ever produced.

So probably probably right about then.

[Uli2001]

15 hours ago, webbrick2010 said:

I am somewhat shocked by the support of Elias, so perhaps I can take another approach

Does/will  the draft the bats buy/trade for the pitchers approach work?

Is the O's roster in 2024 stronger than 2023?

Has Elias made effective/sufficient trades in the offseason or at the trade deadlines to move the O's closer to a WS

Does the Orioles system have a defense problem?

Has it been a mistake to not draft pitchers in the upper rounds?

Does a GM have any accountability for a system that all but the High A team are significantly below .500

Is the only path forward to a championship team for Rubenstein to open up his wallet and the O's to outbid others for the scarcity of pitching? Will that work?

and

What specifically has Elias done a good job of? Drafting?, Trading?, giving interviews?

 

Relax. This is the sophomore slump. This is 2013, and next year will be 2014 (but hopefully with a different playoffs outcome).

[Explosivo]

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