Erceg vs Seranthony Dominguez

[casadeozo]

10 minutes ago, Warehouse said:

No, we still get Eflin.  We just give up Connor Norby, Seth Johnson, Moises Chace, Kyle Stowers, and Luis De Leon/Juan Nunez for Erceg.

Ahh sorry I read it wrong 

[Bemorewins]

34 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Lumping in Soto and Dominguez with Jimenez and Rogers really isn't being honest here.

Soto got off to a bad start but turned it around in a big way.  Dominguez had some lumps.  But if you factor in that adding Dominguez and Soto allowed us to cut Kimbrel, it's an overall positive.

None of them. Not a single one was good. And none were particularly good before they got here. IMO, it was not the right/proper approach to make a bunch of moves around the margins for this team (or even last year's team to be "honest").

We had real holes and needed real players that were actually good (i.e. like Tony's orginal example Erceg). Based on his last few seasons, it wasn't hard to predict that Kimbrel wouldn't be effective through the course of an entire season and into the post season. It wasn't hard to predict regression of Cano based on how his the last 3/4 months of his 23' went (adding that to that fact that he is a contact pitcher pitching in high levarage situations). It wasn't hard to predict that 22' was an outlier season for Perez and that largerly he is a mediocre reliever. And so on ...

Obviously, there is no one single pitcher that can replace a Bautista (maybe Miller?). But Elias was very ineffective in building an effective bullpen for 2024. That's honest.

[Tony-OH]

1 hour ago, Fiver6565 said:

I get your point on drafting pitchers, and I believe that we'll start to see more of that.  I think the strategy in place was in place for a reason during that period of his tenure, and I don't think Elias is so rigid that he intends to use that strategy evermore.

I don't agree re the back of the bullpen.  We'd be exactly where we are right now if we had Erceg or any other reliever - sure Dominguez gave up some homers, but how many saves did he blow, one?  So that's one more win we would have had if we had someone better than him - and we'd have probably given up more than Austin Hays to get whoever that person would be.  And lets face it -  some other KC pitcher would have shut us down in the ninth if they didn't have Erceg and we did - two other relievers I've literally never even heard of already had prior to that.  Pretty much anyone they pulled out of that BP would have gotten the save yesterday against Hack and Co.  So if we had traded for Erceg or if we had targeted the 'right' kind of guy, we'd have maybe one more (meaningless) regular season win, and we'd be down 1-0 in the WC series.

Meanwhile, Dominguez got a big out yesterday to keep it at 1-0, Hays has kept on getting injured w/ the Phillies, and Elias' main trade acquisition was good enough that he is absolutely being counted on to save our season later today.  I don't see complaining about the deadline, frankly.

I don't really disagree with any of your points besides your last sentence. Not every thread has to be about last night alone. It stood out to me when I watched Erceg pitch last night that he was the kind of guy I would have liked to have seen picked up at the trade deadline. I then did a little research and thought it was thread worthy.

This wasn't necessarily only about the trade deadline since again I wanted to point out how bad a strategy it is of not drafting pitchers and how it may have affected Elias' ability to get more quality pieces at the deadline or this offseason. Maybe Erceg wasn't available because Oakland wanted pitching? 

[Fiver6565]

2 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

I don't really disagree with any of your points besides your last sentence. Not every thread has to be about last night alone. It stood out to me when I watched Erceg pitch last night that he was the kind of guy I would have liked to have seen picked up at the trade deadline. I then did a little research and thought it was thread worthy.

This wasn't necessarily only about the trade deadline since again I wanted to point out how bad a strategy it is of not drafting pitchers and how it may have affected Elias' ability to get more quality pieces at the deadline or this offseason. Maybe Erceg wasn't available because Oakland wanted pitching? 

I think at this point its just semantics regarding what a successful deadline looked like.  Elias upgraded three positions - SP, 2 RP.  Could there have been bigger upgrades?  Sure, at a bigger cost.  I think it was sufficient.  What has killed the team is the hitting.  If this team had hit like its capable of, and Soto, Eflin, and Dominguez all pitched exactly as they have, we'd all be feeling a lot better about the team, and probably lauding Elias for those three pickups and what a great boost they were at the deadline.  But we aren't hitting - at all - and I don't know what he could have done at the deadline to fix that.

Already agreed that the draft strategy must evolve. I don't agree it was a bad strategy to do what they did so far, but it does have to evolve, just as the organization as a whole has evolved.  And I think it will.

[HowAboutThat]

1 hour ago, baltfan said:

To me, this was Erceg vs. Soto.  We obviously wanted to move Hays.  The A's would not have been interested in him.  Dominguez was a good get for Hays.  So then it comes down to whether they had enough to get Erceg vs. Soto.  I agree with you that the general lack of pitching depth in the minors maybe made it virtually impossible to get Erceg because they would either be giving up too much - Povich or McDermott + or don't have enough to give up.  

That’s a very good point, but then you have the question whether you would be willing to give up McDermott plus for erceg, and that’s an easy trade to make. Plus, the athletics need almost everything, they wouldn’t want Hays But we could’ve found something to satisfy them.

Edited 1 hour ago by HowAboutThat

[dtk9119]

2 hours ago, HowAboutThat said:

Too soon to dump Elias. He needs the opportunity to evolve.

Not too soon to replace Hyde.

Truth. Even more so, the entire slate of hitting coaches and philosophy top to bottom of the organization.

[bpilktree67]

Ergc is an interesting guy as he wasn't really good til last season  when he was pretty good in OAkland and doesn't have a lot of experience and none in the playoffs at 29 years of age 

2021 in AA 5.29 ERA and 1.561 whip

2022 in AA and AAA 4.51 ERA and 1.647 Whip

2023  in AAA 6.46 ERA and 1.565 Whip and 4.75 ERA and 1.054 Whip 

2024 At Oakland 3.68 ERA and 1.200 whip,  KC 2.88 ERA and .840 whip

So he was bad most his minor league career and was pretty old but kept getting moved up because he has good fastball.  If you trade for him last off season people are wondering why you trade for a guy with those minor league numbers and a decent half season in Oakland.  

 

If i had to take one I would still take Domiguez because of the longer track record and the 16 games he pitched in the post season of 16.1 innings and an ERA of 1.10 and 26 strikeouts with 4 walks vs a guy that had never even pitched in a playoff race.  

 

[HowAboutThat]

1 hour ago, waroriole said:

That’s more than enough for Erceg. Elias is really skating in this Rogers trade. All time terrible move and no justification offered. 

Elias’ statement in Roch’s blog after the trade was clear: “Rogers has shown that he’s got the ability to be anywhere from a #3 to a #5 starter in the past…”

”There’s a few years of control, so we’re hoping for a bounce back.”

In another comment about all the pitching acquisitions, Elias emphasized the two years of control. So, Elias was aware of Rogers performance this season, and is hoping to fix his problems, but the control was the main thing.

Elias also said the orioles “…we’ve got depth in triple A…” I don’t know what he was referring to, because the Os don’t have much pitching depth at all.

[HowAboutThat]

1 hour ago, Fiver6565 said:

I think at this point its just semantics regarding what a successful deadline looked like.  Elias upgraded three positions - SP, 2 RP.  Could there have been bigger upgrades?  Sure, at a bigger cost.  I think it was sufficient.  What has killed the team is the hitting.  If this team had hit like its capable of, and Soto, Eflin, and Dominguez all pitched exactly as they have, we'd all be feeling a lot better about the team, and probably lauding Elias for those three pickups and what a great boost they were at the deadline.  But we aren't hitting - at all - and I don't know what he could have done at the deadline to fix that.

Already agreed that the draft strategy must evolve. I don't agree it was a bad strategy to do what they did so far, but it does have to evolve, just as the organization as a whole has evolved.  And I think it will.

I totally agree that the problem with this team is not the trade deadline, but something else that is making the hitters not hit.

And it has nothing to do with the replacement players, who also didn’t hit, but the core guys who are flailing so badly compared to what they did last year, or even earlier this season.

 

[luismatos4prez]

Kevin Gregg would have slammed the door shut for Kansas City in the 9th. 

[bpilktree67]

2 hours ago, Frobby said:

Erceg has pitched significantly better for KC than he did for Oakland.  He’s a guy who wasn’t even in the majors until age 28, and has 7 blown saves vs. 14 saves in his career.  He had a 5.07 ERA as a minor leaguer.   He’s on a nice roll for KC, so good for him and for them.  We’ll see how he does in the long run.   I’m not saying he’ll revert back to mediocrity, I’m just saying I’m not convinced he’s all that.  

Agreed he had a 5.07 ERA as a minor league pitcher and a 1.59 whip while striking out 9.3 per 9 and walking 5.5 per 9.  Nothing screams he is gonna be this lock down guy for a playoff race and a guy you can count on at 28 based on his numbers in the minors and then last year.   

[Baseball fandom]

3 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

Around the trading deadline, the Royals went and got Lucas Erceg from the A's for P Mason Barnett (minors), Jared Dickey (minors) and P Will Klein. 

Looking at those three prospects, two were pitchers with Barrett being the best prospect of them all but was more on the 4th/5th starter level. 

Elias went cheap and went for Dominguez by trading away Hays.

Erceg immediate became the closer and pitched well:

Notice the no home runs allowed and all top it all he's never allowed a stolen base while on the mound. Only one guy even attempted it and was caught. Seems like the perfect match to be a closer, no home runs, he misses bats, throw 99 MPH, and you can't steal off him. 

Elias went out and got Seranthony Dominguez who was then made closer, then lost it. 

Dominguez, who has always had a homer problem, allowed 6 in just 22.2 innings, and base runners are 21 for 23 in their career running off him.  He did only blow one save opportunity but allowed two walk off home runs.

There are two points I'd like to make. One, it took pitching prospects to get a good relief pitcher and two, Erceg was the kind of reliever the Orioles should have been targeting at the trade deadline. 

 

Yep this trade deadline just like last year is a failure. (Though I did really like the Eflin move quite a bit.)  I know all the Elias apologist is going to go bunkers for saying this but the shine is coming off some for me. 

[LookitsPuck]

I really wanted Erceg at the deadline. Also Kirby Yates. 

I do think Elias went way too far down the tinkerer route during the trade deadline. Soto, Dominguez, Eloy, and Rogers all had big to major warts. The only trade that I thought was a slam dunk was Eflin. But everybody else acquired felt like Elias needed to be the smartest person in the room:

• Rogers with his velocity issues and bad peripherals and advanced stats
• Soto with his inability to get righties out and control issues
• Dominguez was a solid, yet not great pickup especially if he was to be the closer in waiting for Kimbrel
• Eloy with excellent hard hit balls, but a ton of grounders and lack of true distance power

I think Elias felt that Hyde could just piece the bullpen together situationally, but it actually caused some other headaches for Hyde as members of the bullpen already had situational issues.

Maybe Elias thought Eloy could be fixed midseason a la Aaron Hicks (or in the beginning of the season a la O'Hearn). But either way, it was Eflin and a lot of "what ifs!". Not great.