Still think this team didn't choke under pressure?

[interloper]

I think this team was ultimately built for the regular season.

Elias dropped the ball when he didn't get a proven RH postseason masher for the lineup. Eloy and Rivera and Slater are not enough. 

He settled on relying on very young players and way too much on matchups. The veterans that are here are kind of all-or-nothing guys (Mullins, Santander, McCann). O'Hearn and Urias are the two veteran guys who takes professional, contact-oriented ABs and I expect they will both be back. I loved the Hays trade, but I can't help but feel in hindsight like he would have helped a little bit against all those KC lefties.

They looked unprepared from an advance scouting perspective in this series. Santander was getting gassed with high fastballs. Multiple guys were late on hittable fastballs as they appeared to be looking offspeed too much instead of being ready to hit. 

[Tony-OH]

3 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

It was a break for the Royals but it was a self inflicted gunshot wound by Westburg and the Orioles.  Westy is one of my favorites but his lack of awareness in that situation was baffling.  He's a better ballplayer than that, he should know better.

He was 100% going to be out at 2B. Westburg just did not have the game awareness to flip the ball to a covering Gunnar instead of trying to throw out one of the fastest guys in the league.

[Moose Milligan]

1 minute ago, Tony-OH said:

He was 100% going to be out at 2B. Westburg just did not have the game awareness to flip the ball to a covering Gunnar instead of trying to throw out one of the fastest guys in the league.

Ugh, that screencap really nails it.  Gunnar wasn't even all that late in covering.

I thought Westburg was better than that.

[Fiver6565]

1 minute ago, Tony-OH said:

He was 100% going to be out at 2B. Westburg just did not have the game awareness to flip the ball to a covering Gunnar instead of trying to throw out one of the fastest guys in the league.

Such a shame because he made a great stop on that ball too.  Would have been a real highlight reel play if he throws to second and we go on to win.  But I'm sure he's beating himself up like crazy even now about it.  He'll learn from it.  Of all the players on this team, I probably believe in Westburg more than any other.  The guy's got the goods.  He made the wrong play here, but he's got the goods, no doubt in my mind.

[Fiver6565]

It should also be pointed out that we didn't even threaten to score/tie it up after that.  So if he makes that play and its still 1-1, we probably lose 2-1 at some point later in the game anyway.  That play did not cost us the game (not saying anyone is claiming that, I haven't and won't read this entire thread).

[Fiver6565]

Lastly, because Mateo was mentioned somewhere else on the board in re his potential impact on this series - he makes that play, at second, 100/100 times.  And he almost certainly would have been playing second if he had been healthy.  Just another of 1000 examples of that sort of impact missing from this team.

[Tony-OH]

1 hour ago, MDK02 said:

I didn't say it wouldn't. I'm just saying, that is the real way to get the most accurate numbers for runs per game. My eyes told me a different story about this offense than the numbers, for the 2nd of the season anyhow.

It wasn't just your eyes. Using season long stats to determine what the offense was in the second half is an inaccurate way to depict what this team turned into.

The Orioles mashed in April through mid-June then the league adjusted to them. By the end of the year, they were outshouted and their hitting philosophy was exposed. They were horrid with RISP and had what, one comeback win if trailing after 6 innings? 

This team hit in bunches because that's when the pressure is off. If everyone is hitting, there's not a lot of pressure to hit, but when no one is hitting, they put extra pressure on themselves and fail. 

 

[Tony-OH]

4 minutes ago, Fiver6565 said:

Such a shame because he made a great stop on that ball too.  Would have been a real highlight reel play if he throws to second and we go on to win.  But I'm sure he's beating himself up like crazy even now about it.  He'll learn from it.  Of all the players on this team, I probably believe in Westburg more than any other.  The guy's got the goods.  He made the wrong play here, but he's got the goods, no doubt in my mind.

I agree about Westburg. He 100% made the wrong play here and it cost his team, but he's typically been a heads up player. I didn't realize how bad his decision was until I went back and ran the video of the play. That's pretty painful and hopefully we'll never see that from him again.

[ORIOLE33]

17 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

I'm inclined to agree that this group isn't the group to get it done.  

Really curious to see if Adley can get back to what he was in 2025.  

Mounty, Tony, O'Hearn need to go.  Free swinging hackers who swing and miss.

Hyde isn't the problem.  Maybe we overrated our precious prospects and youthful talent.  I think that's as likely as anything.

I agree with everything you said, but Tony is a tough one because we probably don't sniff the playoffs without him. If they let him walk, the better find a serviceable replacement. 

[Moose Milligan]

Just now, ORIOLE33 said:

I agree with everything you said, but Tony is a tough one because we probably don't sniff the playoffs without him. If they let him walk, the better find a serviceable replacement. 

We probably don't, but I think we can all agree that Tony just had a career year and can't be counted on to do that again.

[baltfan]

12 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

He was 100% going to be out at 2B. Westburg just did not have the game awareness to flip the ball to a covering Gunnar instead of trying to throw out one of the fastest guys in the league.

The only thing I wish was that Gunnar was yelling for him to throw it to him.  However, he might have been worried it would screw Westy up since Westy was popping up obviously intending to throw to first.

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Moose Milligan said:

We probably don't, but I think we can all agree that Tony just had a career year and can't be counted on to do that again.

I wouldn't call it a career year.

It was with the home runs but he had a higher average, more doubles and was on base more in 2023.

[Fiver6565]

2 minutes ago, baltfan said:

The only thing I wish was that Gunnar was yelling for him to throw it to him.  However, he might have been worried it would screw Westy up since Westy was popping up obviously intending to throw to first.

Not that it matters but how do you know he wasn't?

[Pat Kelly]

3 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

It wasn't just your eyes. Using season long stats to determine what the offense was in the second half is an inaccurate way to depict what this team turned into.

The Orioles mashed in April through mid-June then the league adjusted to them. By the end of the year, they were outshouted and their hitting philosophy was exposed. They were horrid with RISP and had what, one comeback win if trailing after 6 innings? 

This team hit in bunches because that's when the pressure is off. If everyone is hitting, there's not a lot of pressure to hit, but when no one is hitting, they put extra pressure on themselves and fail. 

 

This is the key issue.  Easier to hit when everyone is hitting, pitching is mediocre and there is less pressure.  What creates pressure?  Good pitching, slumps, injuries and trying to shoe horn in young, not ready players.  All of that amps up in the post season.  

It is on coaches to manage player egos and mindset and GM to acquire players to fill needs.  Both Elias and Hyde squandered a big opportunity this year.   Teams don’t win 100 games or play at a 100 win pace by accident or fluke.  The 2nd half was more than enough of a sample size to judge the team’s readiness to take the next step.  

Ironically they managed a pretty dreadful pitching situation fairly well - frontline starter injuries and BP /depth/implosion issues, even better when you consider the team was only average defensively.  The hitting/lineup was a disaster in judgment, coaching and performance. 

[EddeeEddee]

I don't really consider it choking when a team that has struggled for several months loses two games in a row.  The O's went 29-37 since July 7 (the date when they tied their best W/L margin for the season).  The offense had showed the ability to go utterly MIA some time after the All Star Break.  This was just more of that.