Dinner with Flanny

[ScottieBaseball]

As I just replied to Witchy, I don't feel sorry for these guys at all. They have incredibly exciting, interesting jobs. If they don't want to work that hard, then they should quit. Have you guys talked to MD's? Nurses? There are tons of people that have very demanding jobs for which there are no holidays...and many of those people make very little money, are not fawned over by the public, media, etc. Again, I'm not saying this to be mean or anything, I'm just saying that's part of the job and no different than many others in our society. To whine about it to fans, many of whom work crappy hours for relatively low pay, is, in my opinion, ridiculous. By the way, I'm not a big Flannagan hater or anything. I've defended some of his moves in the past, willing to give them the benefit of the doubt about next year, etc., but from what's been reported the information that was communicated seems to be smoke.

We'll have to agree to disagree, then. Whether by default or by choice, I have no trouble conjuring a degree of sympathy for people with jobs that necessitate long hours and a lot of time away from home. My last job had me on the road 10-15 days per month, living out of a suitcase away from my wife, son, and dog. It was miserable no matter how much I was getting paid. I did something about it by changing jobs when it became unbearable. I'm the last person to wallow in self-pity, but looking back on it even I feel bad for me on some of those stretches away from home. I simply can't subscribe to the 'unique job, lots of money' theory. It borders on class-hating.

[Cokeman]

We'll have to agree to disagree, then. Whether by default or by choice, I have no trouble conjuring a degree of sympathy for people with jobs that necessitate long hours and a lot of time away from home. My last job had me on the road 10-15 days per month, living out of a suitcase away from my wife, son, and dog. It was miserable no matter how much I was getting paid. I did something about it by changing jobs when it became unbearable. I'm the last person to wallow in self-pity, but looking back on it even I feel bad for me on some of those stretches away from home. I simply can't subscribe to the 'unique job, lots of money' theory. It borders on class-hating.

Yeah, after spending 22 years in the Air Force, I can empathize with anyone whose job keeps them from their family whether its just long hours each day, or weeks, months, or even over a year at a time. Money has nothing to do with it...it still fells pretty much the same.

[Ohfan67]

We'll have to agree to disagree, then. Whether by default or by choice, I have no trouble conjuring a degree of sympathy for people with jobs that necessitate long hours and a lot of time away from home. My last job had me on the road 10-15 days per month, living out of a suitcase away from my wife, son, and dog. It was miserable no matter how much I was getting paid. I did something about it by changing jobs when it became unbearable. I'm the last person to wallow in self-pity, but looking back on it even I feel bad for me on some of those stretches away from home. I simply can't subscribe to the 'unique job, lots of money' theory. It borders on class-hating.

I hope not. But maybe you're correct to some degree. I feel sympathy for your story and I feel sympathy for nurses, etc. (even MD's are pretty well paid, but work scary, scary hours), but I don't feel much sympathy for the FO. I guess I don't feel much sympathy for them because I see many of the subjects that were apparently discussed (including the long hours and associated stuff) as very manipulative. It's basically asking for sympathy so their customers (i.e., fans) will cut them some slack for the dismal performance of their organization. In your example, it would be like complaining about the time away from your family as a way to increase sales from your customers (if that was your reason for travel).

[Sports Guy]

where Did You Eat!

My guess is the Camden Club.

[ScottieBaseball]

My guess is the Camden Club.

I thought the same thing but imagined it was closed. Then again, he is the 2nd-highest ranking official, right? I guess if Flanny wants dinner with friends he gets it!

[ScottieBaseball]

I hope not. But maybe you're correct to some degree. I feel sympathy for your story and I feel sympathy for nurses, etc. (even MD's are pretty well paid, but work scary, scary hours), but I don't feel much sympathy for the FO. I guess I don't feel much sympathy for them because I see many of the subjects that were apparently discussed (including the long hours and associated stuff) as very manipulative. It's basically asking for sympathy so their customers (i.e., fans) will cut them some slack for the dismal performance of their organization. In your example, it would be like complaining about the time away from your family as a way to increase sales from your customers (if that was your reason for travel).

I see where your coming from...kind of like an arsonist trying to drum up sympathy because he burned his hand a little. I guess because I can relate a little it's easier for me to see it from my perspective.

[bobmc]

where Did You Eat!

:SuN034: :SuN033: :SuN049:

Well, either Mackus, Harv or Baroquen will report or we wait for the Witchster tomorrow!

[Tony-OH]

Just wanted to throw my two cents in here.

First off, thanks to Helloharv for setting all of this up. He approached me months ago for some names and I'm glad to see we were represented well.

Also, I think people need to thank Flanny for this opportunity as well. Whether it was a PR move or not is irrelevant, but the fact he would take time out of work schedule (even on an "off day) to discuss his point of view with some fans is commendable.

As for feeling "pity" for Flanagan for working hard, I don't think that was his purpose. There have been comments on this board and I'm sure others where the FO's work ethic was questioned. I think all Flanagan was saying is that it's not a problem. I'm sure Flanagan doesn't want "pity" from anyone and realizes he has a pretty good job, even if it does come under a microscope.

Saying all that, I agree with posters who said results will speak louder than words (wonder where I've read that before). After eight losing seasons and part of the way through a ninth, people want to see progress. I truly believe it's easier to take a sub .500 team if the team is playing folks like Markakis, Bedard, Cabrera, Ray while trying to acquire more young talented players. Fans can at least hold out hope the team is gaining experience and should be better in the future. It's a lot harder to take when Jeff Conine and Kevin Millar get regular at bats.

I know I've said this time and time again, but this trade deadline and off season should speak volumes. We will have a lot of good arms to deal in the minors and players like Rodrigo Lopez, Javy Lopez, Bruce Chen, Jeff Conine, Kevin Millar and perhaps even Miguel Tejada should be available to move in the right deal.

[Mackus]

We ate at someplace called the Milton Inn that was near Towson I guess. It was certainly a hike for me all the way from College Park, but definitely worth it.

I had a filet mignon topped with a crabcake, and it was ridiculously good. I'm very glad and thankful that the Flanagan's picked up the tab, otherwise I wouldn't have eaten for the rest of the week, but it still would have been worth it.

[bobmc]

We ate at someplace called the Milton Inn that was near Towson I guess. It was certainly a hike for me all the way from College Park, but definitely worth it.

I had a filet mignon topped with a crabcake, and it was ridiculously good. I'm very glad and thankful that the Flanagan's picked up the tab, otherwise I wouldn't have eaten for the rest of the week, but it still would have been worth it.

Mack,

Thanks for the update! What was the process (to use a bad term) for asking questions or Flanny providing info? Did you eat and then he spoke and then you asked ? or did they read from some prepared ? - just to try to get a flavor of the evening.

[Mackus]

Mack,

Thanks for the update! What was the process (to use a bad term) for asking questions or Flanny providing info? Did you eat and then he spoke and then you asked ? or did they read from some prepared ? - just to try to get a flavor of the evening.

We pretty much just sat down and started talking. We all got there maybe 10 minutes before Flanny. He walked in and shook all of our hands and we introduced ourselves and then we sat at the table. It was basically just a roundhouse conversation from that point on. I was a bit further down the table so I didin't get to direct too many questions at him, but I talked for a while with Mrs. Flanagan who really was on top of a lot of stuff.

Basically if anyone had a question they just asked him, or whenever he was talking he'd lead into another area and we'd ask a question on that and just keep going.

[bobmc]

We pretty much just sat down and started talking. We all got there maybe 10 minutes before Flanny. He walked in and shook all of our hands and we introduced ourselves and then we sat at the table. It was basically just a roundhouse conversation from that point on. I was a bit further down the table so I didin't get to direct too many questions at him, but I talked for a while with Mrs. Flanagan who really was on top of a lot of stuff.

Basically if anyone had a question they just asked him, or whenever he was talking he'd lead into another area and we'd ask a question on that and just keep going.

Sweet - sounds like a real nice time - you were lucky! I'm sure when Cindy reads this she will be "jealous".

[MCL1021]

This off-season we will reap the rewards from the MASN deal, eh? Could be up to 30 million extra eh?

We'll see about that....sounds like something fed to Flanny to say....I hope I'm wrong, but what makes what he said any different than what's been said the last few years?

Regardless for Flanny to come out and talk to some of you guys and actually answer some questions we all desperately want to know, is IMO, very commendable.

[Witchy_Chick]

I read some of these comments prior to going to the game tonight, and have been stewing on them for a couple hours. So, if I end up ranting -- that's why.

#1 Regarding the alleged boo-hooing and whining about the demands of the front office gig, please go back and read my notes post. Please pay particular attention to whom I was interacting with most of the evening. If you all think Mike Flanagan got everyone together so he could whine about his work schedule, well.......I just don't know what to say. Also, as Tony-OH surmised that "work schedule" topic of conversation was in direct response to speculation on the message boards -- including this one -- about the FO work ethic (or lack thereof for some folks).

#2 Regarding the "financials": It's not really financial info per se. It's not like Mrs. Flanagan was given free reign on the accounting books and was allowed to copy ledgers and balance sheets to share with her nearest and dearest -- or even just random fans like me. I looked at some of the paperwork at the game tonight (I was bored/pi$$ed once Daniel allowed the score to go 5-2 in Detroit's favor; but oh -- what an ending!! ). The paperwork is copies of articles, printouts of club value graphs (from Forbes), etc. I'm still going thru this stuff, but I have taken some notes. Something that strikes me as odd -- at the beginning of our dinner meeting, Mrs. Flanagan was talking about how the operating incomes listed in Forbes don't include certain items (items that count as liabilities, I suppose, which thereby lowers operating incomes). Accountants -- check my terminology and "balances" on that if you would. Anyway, as a result of this incomplete data, those operating income numbers from Forbes are somewhat misleading. And, yet, a great deal of what Mrs. Flanagan included in my binder are data printouts from......Forbes.

#3 I may be mixing things up with the thread I was reading on the Sun boards, so forgive me if no one has any idea what I'm talking about. Some folks are rather distraught that we were asked not to disclose certain information. To that, I can only say "I'm sorry." Having dinner with and asking questions of the GM of our baseball team was quite an honor. From what I gather, he does this once a year. What do you think would happen if I (or anyone else) disclosed what was specifically discussed? What we specifically were asked not to share? Do you think any of you would have a chance at this next year? I believe I shared quite a bit -- and got pretty specific -- especially considering: I was not in on all the Flanny talk, as I was chatting with Mrs. Flanny; and, honestly, I really didn't have to share any of this info. I did so at Tony-OH's request. Apparently, he appreciates the garbage I write. I'm sorry that there are things we cannot share with you. But, that's the way it is.

#4 Dinner was at the Milton Inn. I'm not sure of the exact location -- Towson, Sparks, whatever. It was very nice. I got the special -- Filet Chesapeake. As Mackus mentioned, it was ridiculously good. I also had Cream of Crab Soup -- which also was ridiculously good. I skipped dessert. I'm sure that would've been ridiculously good as well.

Thank you and good night.

Witchy

[RShack]

I think this thread, or at least the parts of this thread where folks at the dinner tell us about it, is a very important thing. I hope a lot of OH people read it. I hope a lot of people think about it some, then read it again.

If it's really true that both players and FO people actually read stuff here, then I think that we should raise our standards of behavior for our own selves. Criticism and second-guessing is fine. But IMHO there's *way* too much of a tendency around here to talk about the Orioles players and staff as if they are either enemies or dogmeat. We're fans. We're supposed to second-guess, and we're supposed to want more. But when we're critical, we're supposed to act like the "Loyal Opposition". We're not supposed to act like a bunch of paranoids who think "they" either don't care or are out to get us.

Anyway, thanks a bunch to all who reported on what they saw, heard, and thought. I appreciate it a bunch. I hope you will think of other little tidbits to add. They may not mean much to you, but you've had a whole lot more contact with actual FO people than most of us ever had. Every little thing helps. In particular, I wish you could stay on the right side of honoring confidentiality while still sharing any and all thoughts and perspectives that you soaked up from them.