This is Progress

[soxhotcorner14]

Realistically? Absolutely.

Guaranteed? Of course not.

These are young players whose development is impossible to predict with any certainty, though you feel they should all come up and star like Evan Longoria. Again, unrealistic expectations. It doesn't matter how many times you say "Nuh-uh!"

And I would like to see that source for 2010, as well.

Dude, get off the Longoria thing.. I never said they should come up like that... I said WHY CAN'T the O's have a player like that.... No where did I say anything regarding our players should be like like that... I just said WHY CAN'T... :rolleyestf:

Well, I think you're in a world of hurt if you think in 2010 they're going to be a competitive team. Way too many holes and one offseason can't fill that many holes in that roster.

I'm sure somebody can pull that or confirm that MacPhail has mentioned several times that 2010 was the year they're competitive.

[RenegadeOsFan]

And I mean this in the most sincere way man, but we are all Orioles fans here and as you said, you, like the rest of us, want to see this team flourish.

Right now it seems that tonight's game has gotten to you, and I don't blame you. But your reaction in this thread seems most reactionary to the game.

I remember back in 2007 when people would say we would be competitive in 2009...everyone has hopes in the future...but may factors have to fall in that correct space for it to happen and it hasn't so far this year.

Maybe 2010 will be different? Not sure...and the only thing we can do as fans is be patient, say a couple "woo-sas" to relieve the stress, and wait for the time to come...if it ever does...

[bsebllfan4life]

Well, to be fair to him, he's proof that it's very easy to imply the obvious through one's statements.

However, I don't think you can get any kind of absolute timetable even implied from MacPhail's comments, and won't believe otherwise until it is shown to me.

AM statement was more along the lines of his goal was to build a team that would start to be competitive by 2010. There are a lot of people who misunderstand that to mean be in the playoffs by 2010. It simply meant (to me) that the team would be in place by then, which would be a better then the team he inherited. I don't know that I would say his timetable is that far off. Our prospects for seeing the most dramatic improvement with regards to wins and losses should come next season (2010).

[BaltimoreTerp]

Dude, get off the Longoria thing.. I never said they should come up like that... I said WHY CAN'T the O's have a player like that.... No where did I say anything regarding our players should be like like that... I just said WHY CAN'T... :rolleyestf:

Well, I think you're in a world of hurt if you think in 2010 they're going to be a competitive team. Way too many holes and one offseason can't fill that many holes in that roster.

I'm sure somebody can pull that or confirm that MacPhail has mentioned several times that 2010 was the year they're competitive.

Well, you brought it up so it's on you to source it.

[RenegadeOsFan]

Dude, get off the Longoria thing.. I never said they should come up like that... I said WHY CAN'T the O's have a player like that.... No where did I say anything regarding our players should be like like that... I just said WHY CAN'T... :rolleyestf:

Well, I think you're in a world of hurt if you think in 2010 they're going to be a competitive team. Way too many holes and one offseason can't fill that many holes in that roster.

I'm sure somebody can pull that or confirm that MacPhail has mentioned several times that 2010 was the year they're competitive.

I have never heard him make such a statment like that before...and I am sure if he did mention that, that many people on this board would be laying down the hammer on that statement.

Also, from my recollection, AM has never made that kind of a bold prediction for the Orioles and he's a smart man and I think he never would. I mean you wouldn't put yourself into a corner like that by saying something that definite would you?

So unless you can find the statement, don't mention it again because you can't use it as a basis for your argument.

[TonySoprano]

What's wrong with any of that?

The whole purpose of what the front office is trying to do with the team is build the core from the minors. Well, part of that core is not here yet, and the part that is here is going though the normal growing pains of young players.

Do you believe that the plan we are following is incorrect?

I believe in the youth movement, particularly in guys like Reimold who had to kick the door in to get noticed.

However, today I asked for people to grade the past offseason. The large majority of the responses graded players as "C" or lower. I don't rate stopgaps as making progress.

Instead, we're playing a waiting game for players to survive their growing pains. MacPhail will tell you pitching is no sure thing, so the best thing to do is collect it in quantity and *hope* the law of averages works out in your favor.

I don't view 2011 as much of a slam dunk as some will have you believe. Call me cautiously optimistic, but I still have to see it to believe it.

[soxhotcorner14]

Here is one..

http://oriolepost.blogspot.com/2007/12/baltimore-orioles-andy-macphail-sees.html

As bsebllfan4life mentioned, it's not about the team making the playoffs.. but being in place and being competitive.. and as I mentioned earlier.. when I said "competitive".. I mean winning more games than losing... Nothing about playoffs, World Series titles etc... The team that is going to win with the future in place.

Here is another one from ATH middle of the way down.... http://www.pressboxonline.com/columnist.cfm?ID=29

I can find more, but I'm about to wrap this up for the evening.

Here is another one... http://oriolecentral.wordpress.com/

It can happen, and hopefully the F.O see’s it. Andy Macphail has been talking about this for a couple years, and i think 2009 should be the testing year if we cant get back on track. Then you will see major, big results in 2010. And even bigger results in 2011. Its bound to happen, and i say right now is the time.

[BaltimoreTerp]

Here is one..

http://oriolepost.blogspot.com/2007/12/baltimore-orioles-andy-macphail-sees.html

"Orioles GM Andy MacPhail convinced hard-to-please owner Peter Angelos the team could not be competitive before 2010."

Really? That's the kind of evidence you are presenting?

Here is another one from ATH middle of the way down.... http://www.pressboxonline.com/columnist.cfm?ID=29

Nothing there on the subject.

[BaltimoreTerp]

Here is another one... http://oriolecentral.wordpress.com/

Nothing there either, even if that last paragraph is your evidence since it doesn't say anything about what MacPhail said or even thinks.

[ledzepp8]

The problem is that MacPhail keeps preaching grow the arms and buy the bats.. what bats have the O's bought that are of any significance?

I guess I missed the memo that says the arms are finished growing.

[soxhotcorner14]

Nothing there on the subject.

Since taking the reins midway through the 2007 season, MacPhail has been very clear about his timeline. He has said all along not to expect the Orioles to be competitive until 2010 at the earliest.

Dude, you will try to break anything down.. I know there have been more people on this site that has seen his press conferences and his speaking engagements where he backs this up. So stop trying to play me like I have some BS evidence.. Obviously, where there is smoke there is fire.

[Cokeman]

"Orioles GM Andy MacPhail convinced hard-to-please owner Peter Angelos the team could not be competitive before 2010."

Really? That's the kind of evidence you are presenting?

Nothing there on the subject.

I think this is what he is referring to:

Since taking the reins midway through the 2007 season, MacPhail has been very clear about his timeline. He has said all along not to expect the Orioles to be competitive until 2010 at the earliest.

[bsebllfan4life]

I guess I missed the memo that says the arms are finished growing.

I don't know if I have the strength to do this all again, however, the "arms" are not even here yet, and as AM and most GM say, you don't add the bats (the last step) before you are ready to compete. I would think when the rest of the team is in place, you will see the O's add the bat they need (if they still need it).

[soxhotcorner14]

Nothing there either, even if that last paragraph is your evidence since it doesn't say anything about what MacPhail said or even thinks.

It can happen, and hopefully the F.O see’s it. Andy Macphail has been talking about this for a couple years, and i think 2009 should be the testing year if we cant get back on track. Then you will see major, big results in 2010. And even bigger results in 2011. Its bound to happen, and i say right now is the time.

[BaltimoreTerp]

Nothing there on the subject.

Since taking the reins midway through the 2007 season, MacPhail has been very clear about his timeline. He has said all along not to expect the Orioles to be competitive until 2010 at the earliest.

Dude, you will try to break anything down.. I know there have been more people on this site that has seen his press conferences and his speaking engagements where he backs this up. So stop trying to play me like I have some BS evidence.. Obviously, where there is smoke there is fire.

Don't blame me for you not knowing what "at the earliest" means.