This is Progress

[NewMarketSean]

Because wins and losses are only the barometer once you are trying to contend. For us, its about much more nuanced things. Of course you already understand that, only a fool wouldn't.

But shouldn't these "nuanced" things eventually show up in the record?

Everything a team does should ultimately reflect itself in its record.

[Sports Guy]

These are excellent points and certainly something to ponder. I do believe as an organization we are better than we were since Gillick was here, but is it enough? I'm don't know but I do know this, if we were in any other division the fans would be really, really excited about this team's future. It really is ashamed that MLB has allowed this situation to occur.

The Orioles have done a lot over the years to dig themselves into this hole, but we would not be looking at our 12th straight losing season if were were in any other Division.

And this is 100% true...But this is what is bothering so many of us.

While the progress is great and while it is nice to see us bringing in talent, the bottom line is AM has to build a team that will be one of, if not the best teams in all of baseball...Not a team that is set up to win 90 games...a team that is set up to win 95-100 games.

Is AM the guy to make that happen? I am not sure I believe that he is.

[glenn__davis]

And this is 100% true...But this is what is bothering so many of us.

While the progress is great and while it is nice to see us bringing in talent, the bottom line is AM has to build a team that will be one of, if not the best teams in all of baseball...Not a team that is set up to win 90 games...a team that is set up to win 95-100 games.

Is AM the guy to make that happen? I am not sure I believe that he is.

Good posts and points by nadecir, Tony and yourself. We're improving, but will it be enough? That's the question. Eventually, AM is going to have spend some money and maybe even roll the dice on a gutsy trade. Will he be willing to do that when the time comes? I guess we'll find out.

One quibble I will make - I'm not sure he needs to build a team to win 95-100 games. Naturally, as we improve, the win totals of the Yanks, Sox and Rays should come down, one would think. Of course you want to assemble the best team you can, but I don't think I agree that the winner of the East or the WC is going to consistently need to win 95 games.

[Satyr3206]

These are excellent points and certainly something to ponder. I do believe as an organization we are better than we were since Gillick was here, but is it enough? I'm don't know but I do know this, if we were in any other division the fans would be really, really excited about this team's future. It really is ashamed that MLB has allowed this situation to occur.

The Orioles have done a lot over the years to dig themselves into this hole, but we would not be looking at our 12th straight losing season if were were in any other Division.

I'm excited no matter what division we're in. The AL East makes it more of a challenge, but it makes it more of a reward too. The Yankees and Red Sox aren't annointed Division Champs and WC teams. They have to continue to do the right things while we are improving.

I personally think the Yankees are headed for a tough stretch. Jeter, Posada, Matsui, and Petitte are getting old. Their rotation consisits of a fair amount of guys with significant innings on their arms. They will reload to a degree, but I'm not sold on Hank being the architect of it.

[Sports Guy]

Then you're not sure if he isn't either. What's the point. We have a GM who actually has a little power. He's done well so far. Now you want another GM?

At this point, I am not sure about AM...I am not sure anyone should fell any different unless your head is so far in the sand that you can't see reality.

The team is improved but are they where they should be right now? I expected this team to win 75 games this year...They still can do that.

I also expected AM to make somne deadline moves and continue to build the "inventory".

Both of these things can still happen.

I think expect AM to really bolster the team in the offseason and put a team on the field next OD that should win around 85 games.

That is when the true measure of AM and this team will be...What are we looking at heading into the season.

If we are looking at another 70-75 win team next year, then yes, its time for AM to go.

[olehippi]

And this is 100% true...But this is what is bothering so many of us.

While the progress is great and while it is nice to see us bringing in talent, the bottom line is AM has to build a team that will be one of, if not the best teams in all of baseball...Not a team that is set up to win 90 games...a team that is set up to win 95-100 games.

Is AM the guy to make that happen? I am not sure I believe that he is.

So you're not buying completely into MacPhail's "grow the arms, buy the bats" solution either? IMO accepting that as the ultimate solution would be a bit naive. To achieve winning those 95-100 games required to win a pennant, not only will we have to buy a bat or two, it will likely also require laying out a pile of cash for a Halladay-type top-of-the-rotation starter.

The problem I see with this scenario is whether PA and the O's truly have the financial means required to overpay so we can compete with New York and Boston.

[DrungoHazewood]

One quibble I will make - I'm not sure he needs to build a team to win 95-100 games. Naturally, as we improve, the win totals of the Yanks, Sox and Rays should come down, one would think. Of course you want to assemble the best team you can, but I don't think I agree that the winner of the East or the WC is going to consistently need to win 95 games.

I think the best anyone can hope for, at least outside of fans of teams with $220M payrolls, is for a 85-90 win team and acknowledging that sometimes 87-win teams actually win 97.

[Fan4Life]

So if AM has young budding stars at 7 or 8 positions with 5 young starters, and we still go 75-87 next year, you want him gone? Hmmmm. There are just too many variables to just say it has to be this way or that way or he's gone. I'll judge him as he goes. If he holds onto Sherrill and Sherrill loses a lot of value going into the offseason then that's a mark against AM. IMO, he hasn't made too many missteps so far. He has a much longer rope in my book than he does in yours. I am going to expect much more from him this deadline and this offeseason than I expected last year but that's only normal because of where the team is with expiring contracts and such.

This would be more about Dave than Andy for me.

Can you tell me what you would have to see this year, if anything, and mid-way through next year to question the leadership at any level of this organization?

[Sports Guy]

So if AM has young budding stars at 7 or 8 positions with 5 young starters, and we still go 75-87 next year, you want him gone? Hmmmm. There are just too many variables to just say it has to be this way or that way or he's gone. I'll judge him as he goes. If he holds onto Sherrill and Sherrill loses a lot of value going into the offseason then that's a mark against AM. IMO, he hasn't made too many missteps so far. He has a much longer rope in my book than he does in yours. I am going to expect much more from him this deadline and this offeseason than I expected last year but that's only normal because of where the team is with expiring contracts and such.

I said put a team on the field that should win 85 games...That doesn't mean the wins will happen..Players don't develop as quickly as you like to think, people get hurt, etc...A lot of that wouldn't be the fault of AM.

However, I want to see a team that should win those 85ish games if they play well...Not a team that should win 85 games if everyone has a career year and the rest of the AL East struggles.

[Sports Guy]

So you're not buying completely into MacPhail's "grow the arms, buy the bats" solution either? IMO accepting that as the ultimate solution would be a bit naive. To achieve winning those 95-100 games required to win a pennant, not only will we have to buy a bat or two, it will likely also require laying out a pile of cash for a Halladay-type top-of-the-rotation starter.

The problem I see with this scenario is whether PA and the O's truly have the financial means required to overpay so we can compete with New York and Boston.

No because I don't believe he will buy the bats unless they are Aubrey Huff type guys...and that isn't going to cut it.

[Satyr3206]

I think the best anyone can hope for, at least outside of fans of teams with $220M payrolls, is for a 85-90 win team and acknowledging that sometimes 87-win teams actually win 97.

Only 1 team in history has approached that payroll and they didn't win the WS.

[JTrea81]

I think the best anyone can hope for, at least outside of fans of teams with $220M payrolls, is for a 85-90 win team and acknowledging that sometimes 87-win teams actually win 97.

The Red Sox only have a payroll of roughly $122 million this year, while our payroll is only slighty under $4 million more than the Tampa Bay Rays' $63 million.

With MASN, revenue sharing and merchandising and TV profits, that is a complete joke.

[jcumansky28]

The problem is impatient fans who want to see the team get better but aren't willing to allow it to get better.

Yeah, because 11 years of waiting and faint signs of hope should be enough to shut them up!

[waroriole]

No because I don't believe he will buy the bats unless they are Aubrey Huff type guys...and that isn't going to cut it.

I'm not going to knock you for believing this, but what proof do you have of it. He's not going to "buy the bats" until we're ready to compete. When we are close I believe he will buy the bats, but not until then. Also, he made an attempt in the offseason to buy a bat (which he said was a wise deviation from the plan) but it didn't work out. Unless you just think that the Tex offer was a token offer, I don't see how you can think that he won't try to bring in a big time bat when we are ready to compete.

[carolinaoriole]

The Red Sox only have a payroll of $124 million this year, while our payroll is only slighty under $4 million more than the Tampa Bay Rays' $63 million.

With MASN, revenue sharing and merchandising and TV profits, that is a complete joke.

It is not how much but how you spend.

Look at the mets and yes I will say it until they win something, the idiotic yankees.