Snyder - "I WANT to be the every day first baseman"

[Big Mac]

But people don't need to reply.

very true.

[JTrea81]

Well of course you don't usually have contenders with unproven guys at both of those positions, most building teams don't either. But that's a rather odd way to look at it. What's the difference where the unproven guys play?

The difference is it seems the majority of Orioles fans expect us to be contending in 2011. But the reality is teams with two unproven guys at the corners do not usually make the playoffs.

BTW, how how did that unproven Morales do this year?

He did well but before this year he had parts of three seasons in MLB as well as 3 straight seasons in AAA. And he had over 400 PAs in MLB.

He wasn't quite as "unproven" IMO.

[Sports Guy]

The difference is it seems the majority of Orioles fans expect us to be contending in 2011. But the reality is teams with two unproven guys at the corners do not usually make the playoffs.

He did well but before this year he had parts of three seasons in MLB as well as 3 straight seasons in AAA. And he had over 400 PAs in MLB.

He wasn't quite as "unproven" IMO.

Well if Bell and Snyder get 300 consistent ML at bats this year, then they won't be unproven heading into 2011 either by your standards here.

[Mackus]

I am not sure I agree with that...It MIGHT be down from where it was last offseason but its not rock bottom.

Its absolutely down from where it was last offseason. He was coming off of back-to-back sub-4.00 ERA seasons. Even if he only got to about 180 innings or so, that's far more valuable than a 5.25 ERA for 200 innings.

His value is at least at a local minimum. Its the lowest its ever been since he's broken out with us. If he gets worse or stays bad it would go down a bit, but if he bounces back even to just the mid-4's it would get a lot higher.

Basically my point is I think its far more likely that his value increases or at least stays the same than it is that his value goes down. I don't think this offseason is an intelligent time to be trading him unless the offers are far better than I expect.

[SilentJames]

The difference is it seems the majority of Orioles fans expect us to be contending in 2011. But the reality is teams with two unproven guys at the corners do not usually make the playoffs.

He did well but before this year he had parts of three seasons in MLB as well as 3 straight seasons in AAA. And he had over 400 PAs in MLB.

He wasn't quite as "unproven" IMO.

We have two guys that are absolutely raking in the minor leagues, and you are worried about "proven" I mean, Trea - this is what rebuilding is.

Of course they aren't proven yet, they have had a chance to prove themselves.

How can someone who was clamoring for Justin Smoak just a couple months ago be complaining we are talking about TWO guys who are putting up numbers that Smoak SHOULD have been putting up in the minors trying to crack the minors?

I mean, here is Snyder someone with a lot of minor league experience, who has seen the success of our young kids and is ready to prove himself. He wants his shot. He wants to be part of the revival, he wants to be part of the youth movement. Bell is the same way - he wants in, he wants his shot.

Of course they aren't proven in the MLB yet - no prospect is. But this thread is about two guys who are performing at ridiculous levels and are anxious and ready to get their shot.

These guys are counting down the days to ST to get a chance TO prove themselves.

Markakis played his way on to the team, so did Bergesen, Matusz and Tillman. Berken and Hernandez did the same. Wieters had to earn it too.

This Spring Bell and Snyder want to earn it.

That is what this is about.

[Sports Guy]

Its absolutely down from where it was last offseason. He was coming off of back-to-back sub-4.00 ERA seasons. Even if he only got to about 180 innings or so, that's far more valuable than a 5.25 ERA for 200 innings.

His value is at least at a local minimum. Its the lowest its ever been since he's broken out with us. If he gets worse or stays bad it would go down a bit, but if he bounces back even to just the mid-4's it would get a lot higher.

Basically my point is I think its far more likely that his value increases or at least stays the same than it is that his value goes down. I don't think this offseason is an intelligent time to be trading him unless the offers are far better than I expect.

I bet we can get more in trade for him right now than we could have after his first year here.

[SilentJames]

I bet we can get more in trade for him right now than we could have after his first year here.

Yeah, but not as much as last offseason I bet.

Guts' stock is down. Down enough that I would bet on it rebounding and being able to get more for him in June. Now, if the deal is right in November - trade him.

[mweb]

The difference is it seems the majority of Orioles fans expect us to be contending in 2011. But the reality is teams with two unproven guys at the corners do not usually make the playoffs.

He did well but before this year he had parts of three seasons in MLB as well as 3 straight seasons in AAA. And he had over 400 PAs in MLB.

He wasn't quite as "unproven" IMO.

By 2011, Bell and Synder may not be as unproven either, that's the point in seeing how they develop next year before doing anything drastic regarding those positions.

And once again, it doesn't matter where the unproven guys play.

[JTrea81]

Well if Bell and Snyder get 300 consistent ML at bats this year, then they won't be unproven heading into 2011 either by your standards here.

Morales put up an .812 OPS at the ML level in 126 PAs in 2007

And Figgins who was proven was at 3B so the example applies anyway as I said at least one of the corner IFers was established for each playoff team.

If Snyder and Bell both put up sub .800 OPS at the ML level in 300 ABs which is very likely, they are still "unproven" going into 2011 IMO.

[JTrea81]

We have two guys that are absolutely raking in the minor leagues, and you are worried about "proven" I mean, Trea - this is what rebuilding is.

Of course they aren't proven yet, they have had a chance to prove themselves.

How can someone who was clamoring for Justin Smoak just a couple months ago be complaining we are talking about TWO guys who are putting up numbers that Smoak SHOULD have been putting up in the minors trying to crack the minors?

I mean, here is Snyder someone with a lot of minor league experience, who has seen the success of our young kids and is ready to prove himself. He wants his shot. He wants to be part of the revival, he wants to be part of the youth movement. Bell is the same way - he wants in, he wants his shot.

Of course they aren't proven in the MLB yet - no prospect is. But this thread is about two guys who are performing at ridiculous levels and are anxious and ready to get their shot.

These guys are counting down the days to ST to get a chance TO prove themselves.

Markakis played his way on to the team, so did Bergesen, Matusz and Tillman. Berken and Hernandez did the same. Wieters had to earn it too.

This Spring Bell and Snyder want to earn it.

That is what this is about.

That's fine but that doesn't change the fact that the majority of playoff teams do not have two guys at the corner IF spots that are trying to prove they belong in MLB.

It will take until 2012 at the earliest IMO for Snyder and Bell to be established.

If the goal is to be competing for a playoff spot in 2011, we are at a disadvantage already with two unestablished players at the corner spots based on the makeup of playoff teams. If we did make the playoffs it would extremely unusual.

[Sports Guy]

Morales put up an .812 OPS at the ML level in 126 PAs in 2007

And Figgins who was proven was at 3B so the example applies anyway as I said at least one of the corner IFers was established for each playoff team.

If Snyder and Bell both put up sub .800 OPS at the ML level in 300 ABs which is very likely, they are still "unproven" going into 2011 IMO.

So, in a very small sample size, Morales put up an 812 OPS and he was established but if Bell or Snyder put up an 780 OPS in 300 at bats, they won't be?

My god your thought process is ridiculous.

[Arthur_Bryant]

That's fine but that doesn't change the fact that the majority of playoff teams do not have two guys at the corner IF spots that are trying to prove they belong in MLB.

It will take until 2012 at the earliest IMO for Snyder and Bell to be established.

If the goal is to be competing for a playoff spot in 2011, we are at a disadvantage already with two unestablished players at the corner spots based on the makeup of playoff teams. If we did make the playoffs it would extremely unusual.

The majority of ALL teams, regardless of their record, do not have two "unproven" corner infielders, because most teams are not rebuilding and therefore don't have that kind of turnover.

However, the Tigers, Mariners, Blue Jays, Braves, Nationals, Cubs, and Reds (off the top of my head) DID have "proven" players at the IF corners this year--some of them really good--and they failed to make the playoffs. You're more creative than I am if you can find some correlation there.

[JTrea81]

So, in a very small sample size, Morales put up an 812 OPS and he was established but if Bell or Snyder put up an 780 OPS in 300 at bats, they won't be?

My god your thought process is ridiculous.

You are missing the point. Figgins was established. I'm not saying Morales was established at at all, just not as unproven as Snyder will be in 2011 IMO.

[mweb]

You are missing the point. Figgins was established. I'm not saying Morales was established at at all, just not as unproven as Snyder will be in 2011 IMO.

You're missing the point that it doesn't matter what positions the "unproven" guys play and are ignoring the possibility that one or both young guys can progress faster than you think. Or if they don't progress as well as we'd want, and the team is on the verge of contending, AM could go get a proven guy or two.

[JTrea81]

You're missing the point that it doesn't matter what positions the "unproven" guys play and are ignoring the possibility that one or both young guys can progress faster than you think.

Show me a playoff team in the past 10 years that had two corner IFers with less than 2 years MLB experience.