Snyder - "I WANT to be the every day first baseman"

[JTrea81]

Are you really asking what the difference is between SS and 1B/3B in the O's organization?

We can extend Izturis at SS and get plenty of defense at that position which is more important than offense at that position.

The 1997 Orioles were able to carry Mike Bordick.

However we can't carry two sub .800 OPS bats at 1B and 3B and expect to compete IMO.

So anybody who thinks we should start Bell and Snyder in 2011 basically thinks we shouldn't compete until 2012 at the earliest which is contrary to popular opinion here IMO.

I think people just don't get the disconnect there.

Waiting on Bell and Snyder is basically throwing away two years of playoff eligibility IMO.

[tvz1997]

Are you really asking what the difference is between SS and 1B/3B in the O's organization?

Come on! We only have Snyder, Bell, and Waring and maybe someday Townsend at the corners in our organization. Maybe Givens is his next battle cry. He's premiumer.

[Sports Guy]

I'm not the one comparing him to Billy Butler. That's what Tony put his ceiling at.

Mike Jacobs at the worst, Billy Butler at the best.

Billy Butler had a 850+ OPS this year...He hit 21 homers and had 51 doubles at the age of 23...If Snyder turns out to be Butler, we will be in good shape.

[tvz1997]

Waiting on Bell and Snyder is basically throwing away two years of playoff eligibility IMO.

The fact that that statement appeared directly above your "Waiting for 2012" sig is too good to be true.

[Sports Guy]

We can extend Izturis at SS and get plenty of defense at that position which is more important than offense at that position.

The 1997 Orioles were able to carry Mike Bordick.

However we can't carry two sub .800 OPS bats at 1B and 3B and expect to compete IMO.

So anybody who thinks we should start Bell and Snyder in 2011 basically thinks we shouldn't compete until 2012 at the earliest which is contrary to popular opinion here IMO.

I think people just don't get the disconnect there.

Waiting on Bell and Snyder is basically throwing away two years of playoff eligibility IMO.

Why can't Snyder and Bell get 300 at bats in 2010 and be ready to be 750+ OPS guys in 2011?

We definitely can contend in that scenario.

[JTrea81]

Billy Butler had a 850+ OPS this year...He hit 21 homers and had 51 doubles at the age of 23...If Snyder turns out to be Butler, we will be in good shape.

Billy Butler was only a 2.5 WAR player.

Teixeira and Youkilis were both 5+ WAR players.

[Enjoy Terror]

The idea of a playoff run is absurd to me. The opinion that the Orioles need to do XYZ to get to ABC by 123 is silly. All the Orioles need to do (and have been doing IMO) is make practical moves that make the club better as time goes on and consistently improve faster than the rate of player attrition. That's it. If the club can continually do that, then a competitive team can be fielded every year.

Keep Snyder and Bell in AAA. When both have shown progress there, then move them up. Advancing them to the majors because certain people believe that if they don't play now they won't be ready for the "Orioles 2011 Playoff Run" is haphazard thinking and needlessly risky.

[JTrea81]

Why can't Snyder and Bell get 300 at bats in 2010 and be ready to be 750+ OPS guys in 2011?

We definitely can contend in that scenario.

There's no way we can contend with that little production from those corner spots. We just don't have the talent in the rest of our lineup to carry that.

[TiredofLosing20]

That's not really what I mean. I mean that most of us try to look at things from a position of simple logic. Some cost-benefit analysis, projections, progressions. Etc. Trea, however, has weighted so many things subjectively that he, in fact, doesn't operate in the same world of linearity. His logic doesn't look like our logic. It bends.

While Trea can be manipulative (his selective quotations are among the most egregious on the board) I don't think he's manipulating anything to support his point. I think he literally looks at a different universe than the rest of us.

One where the value of competing in 2011 > value of competing in 2012-2015.

Yeah I sorta meant that you didn't think his argument made any sense not the manufacturing his argument to give Scott Moore a chance but not Snyder, that second part was all me, should have been clearer.

To expand on MY second point, (see what I did there) arguing for Scott Moore to be given a chance because "they aren't competing that year" from the guy who abhors the thought of not "competing" every year just seems like manufacturing to me.

[Lucky Jim]

Billy Butler was only a 2.5 WAR player.

Teixeira and Youkilis were both 5+ WAR players.

So, you're saying that as long as we can make up 2-2.5 WAR elsewhere, we're fine?

[Big Mac]

There's no way we can contend with that little production from those corner spots. We just don't have the talent in the rest of our lineup to carry that.

So even though we wwill likely have above average production at C, 2B, and all 3 OF spots that won't be enough?

Not to mention our success is mostly going to be on the shoulders of the SP in 2010, 2011, and beyond. You seem to ignore this concept.

[Hank Scorpio]

Billy Butler had a 850+ OPS this year...He hit 21 homers and had 51 doubles at the age of 23...If Snyder turns out to be Butler, we will be in good shape.

Who knew, Butler profiles as very good offensive player. But that's only because he plays in the AL Central.

[Frobby]

We can extend Izturis at SS and get plenty of defense at that position which is more important than offense at that position.

The 1997 Orioles were able to carry Mike Bordick.

However we can't carry two sub .800 OPS bats at 1B and 3B and expect to compete IMO.

The 1997 O's got a combined OPS of about .774 at 1B/3B, and about the same at DH, all while carrying .601 OPS Bordick at SS.

This thread has gone far afield. Don't we want to find out what Snyder and Bell can do? We are debating whether we can carry two sub-.800 OPS corner infielders, before we know that this is what we should expect from these guys.

[Big Mac]

The 1997 O's got a combined OPS of about .774 at 1B/3B, and about the same at DH, all while carrying .601 OPS Bordick at SS.

This thread has gone far afield. Don't we want to find out what Snyder and Bell can do? We are debating whether we can carry two sub-.800 OPS corner infielders, before we know that this is what we should expect from these guys.

game. set. match.

Frobby wins, time to lock the thread before it goes more off topic.

[JTrea81]

To expand on MY second point, (see what I did there) arguing for Scott Moore to be given a chance because "they aren't competing that year" from the guy who abhors the thought of not "competing" every year just seems like manufacturing to me.

If you were here in 2008, you'd know I made this exact same argument then.