We should ignore NY and Boston (for now)

[Mackus]

The goal for us remains the same regardless of what the Yankees and Red Sox do.

We need to build a team that can win about 95 games. The Yanks and Red Sox are going to spend a ton of money to try and do the same thing. We can't match them dollar for dollar. Whining about every move they make is just stupid. They are going to make a lot of big moves. We'll have to make a few really big moves ourselves, although we don't have the margin for error that they do. If we make a big move and it backfires in our faces, our hopes are dead.

Its not a level playing field, so we have the be smarter and more efficient than they are in order to match them.

[Old#5fan]

Sure & that means they will still beating us!!!!!

yeah, apparently this guy doesn't get basic math that in order for them to get that many wins they get a lot of them by beating up on the Orioles and Toronto. :laughlol:

We are mere whipping boys and this year is going to be more of the same. :(If McPhail would at least get a middle of the order fearsome bat (even Vlad in his old age) and a veteran starter like Pedro to go with Millwood, the Yankees and Boston would have to bring their A game at least during half of the games of a four game series. I firmly believe this.

[TGO]

If we sign Pedro and Vlad we might have a shot at contending in 2002.

[ChaosLex]

If we sign Pedro and Vlad we might have a shot at contending in 2002.

Money. :rofl:

[byrdz]

Why you gotta go there?

That doesn't mean that Santa Claus really exist though now does it?

[mweb]

Posada, Williams, and Petitte are not HOF calibur players. They are in the Hall of Very Good. The Yankees did well with those five, but it is important to note that those five players have twenty other players helping them. You look at their teams and there really was some very good ball players.

They actually are HOF caliber players, but they may not get in. I also didn't say they were lacking support. They didn't have much, if any outside premium players in '96 though.

[mweb]

I am usually with you, but the Yankees won the World Series for the first time in almost a decade this year and their additions of Teixeira, Brunett, and Sabathia really helped them get there. How can that not be improving? Boston is kind of in another boat all together as they had to deal with a declining Ortiz, lose of production from Bay in comparison to Manny, and an injured Dice-K. Boston adding Cameron helps them fill the LF void, but it comes at the cost of a couple wins if Bay or Holliday do not sign with the Sox. Lackey provides them with a great upgrade over whoever their number 4 or 5 pitcher was going to be (Wakefield?).

If they move Lowell and are able to sign Beltre then it will be very hard to say that the Yankees and Red Sox didn't improve the quality of their team. It might translate to the same number of wins, but it makes defeating them that much harder which in turn better their team. The Orioles are going to have a much harder time winning games against those two teams this year and I would put money on the best team in the AL being either the Red Sox or Yankees for the next 6 years with one of those two teams winning at least half of those WS titles.

Every Apple iPhone is just an iPhone, but the quality of the phone seems to change everytime a new version is put out. No matter what changes are made, it is still an iPhone.

Yes, the Yanks improved from '08 to '09, but over time, they and the Sox stay pretty consistent with occasional years where things come together or don't work out too well. Most of their moves are simply compensating for lost players, declining players, and poor signings.

[mweb]

Rivera too. What impact players did they have besides the homegrown guys that year? I'm guessing your definition of impact is about to decrease.

Trea?

.....

[Old#5fan]

If we sign Pedro and Vlad we might have a shot at contending in 2002.

Well if Pedro could win 10-12 games and Vlad have 5 or 6 game winning rbi we could be close to a 500 team this season. As it stands now this team is going to be every bit as bad or worse than it was last year. There is nothing to show me otherwise. Millwood replaces Eaton. Big deal. We still have no closer, no first baseman, no decent third baseman and basically an unproven rotation and lousy bullpen. (Correct me if I am wrong here please). Where are the upgrades again in those major areas?

[mweb]

Well if Pedro could win 10-12 games and Vlad have 5 or 6 game winning rbi we could be close to a 500 team this season. As it stands now this team is going to be every bit as bad or worse than it was last year. There is nothing to show me otherwise. Millwood replaces Eaton. Big deal. We still have no closer, no first baseman, no decent third baseman and basically an unproven rotation and lousy bullpen. (Correct me if I am wrong here please). Where are the upgrades again in those major areas?

Millwood is a lot better than Eaton. The upgrades at this point other than that are the fact that the young guys like Wieters, BB, Matutz, Tillman, and Reimold will be with the team from day 1, and they and the other young talent should improve.

Do you really disagree with that?

Yes, more upgrades should be made, I agree with that, but the team will almost certainly be better than last years without doing anything. If it's not, we'd be in serious trouble regradless of who we went out and got.

[Knife_Dixon]

Yes, the Yanks improved from '08 to '09, but over time, they and the Sox stay pretty consistent with occasional years where things come together or don't work out too well. Most of their moves are simply compensating for lost players, declining players, and poor signings.

I tried this the other day, then it seems Scott picked up the torch, though they still don't understand the basic premise behind the argument. I'm not sure there is a better way to explain it than this, though you may be wasting your time.

[mweb]

I tried this the other day, then it seems Scott picked up the torch, though they still don't understand the basic premise behind the argument. I'm not sure there is a better way to explain it than this, though you may be wasting your time.

Of course I'm wasting my time.

And your post from yesterday was quite good.

[scOtt]

I am usually with you, but the Yankees won the World Series for the first time in almost a decade this year and their additions of Teixeira, Brunett, and Sabathia really helped them get there. How can that not be improving? Boston is kind of in another boat all together as they had to deal with a declining Ortiz, lose of production from Bay in comparison to Manny, and an injured Dice-K. Boston adding Cameron helps them fill the LF void, but it comes at the cost of a couple wins if Bay or Holliday do not sign with the Sox. Lackey provides them with a great upgrade over whoever their number 4 or 5 pitcher was going to be (Wakefield?).

If they move Lowell and are able to sign Beltre then it will be very hard to say that the Yankees and Red Sox didn't improve the quality of their team. It might translate to the same number of wins, but it makes defeating them that much harder which in turn better their team. The Orioles are going to have a much harder time winning games against those two teams this year and I would put money on the best team in the AL being either the Red Sox or Yankees for the next 6 years with one of those two teams winning at least half of those WS titles.

Every Apple iPhone is just an iPhone, but the quality of the phone seems to change everytime a new version is put out. No matter what changes are made, it is still an iPhone.

I'm not saying they aren't great teams. And the Yankees did push it to 103 wins this year. A 14 game improvement over 2008.

What I'm saying is it isn't cumulative. If the Skanks spend another 1/2 billion this offseason, they don't up their record to 117 wins. They'll still be around 100 wins. Next year, and next, and in 5 years.

The whole premise of the thread is ignore Bos and NY. And that's what we should do. In 3 or 4 or 5 years when we are (hopefully) contending, all the moves those teams make, they will still have the same record. We're not competing against all their flashy moves, we're just trying to get our team to 100 wins, the best way we can.

[DrungoHazewood]

What I'm saying is it isn't cumulative. If the Skanks spend another 1/2 billion this offseason, they don't up their record to 117 wins. They'll still be around 100 wins. Next year, and next, and in 5 years.

There are only about 15 or 16 real jobs on any major league roster. Eight position players, a DH, five starters, and a closer. That's all the Yanks can fill up with All Stars. And every year they're already pretty close.

To get to a true talent, projected win total of much over 100 the Yanks would have to be unbelievably healthy, and/or sign players for the bench/pen who'd have much greater roles on other teams. They'd have to pull a UNC/Duke in college basketball, where they get players who'd be stars on other teams and get them to be Yanks and sit the bench or pitch long relief. They'd have to sign John Lackey, but with the expectation that he'd throw 75 innings out of the pen.

That's not happening, so the O's goal remains the same - to get 90+ wins and hope for some things to come together.

[byrdz]

There are only about 15 or 16 real jobs on any major league roster. Eight position players, a DH, five starters, and a closer. That's all the Yanks can fill up with All Stars. And every year they're already pretty close.

To get to a true talent, projected win total of much over 100 the Yanks would have to be unbelievably healthy, and/or sign players for the bench/pen who'd have much greater roles on other teams. They'd have to pull a UNC/Duke in college basketball, where they get players who'd be stars on other teams and get them to be Yanks and sit the bench or pitch long relief. They'd have to sign John Lackey, but with the expectation that he'd throw 75 innings out of the pen.

That's not happening, so the O's goal remains the same - to get 90+ wins and hope for some things to come together.

And if the O's get to 90+ wins chances are they've made a dent in those 100 wins that the Yanks would normally get.