I thought this deserved its own thread...

[baltfan]

A little nugget:

Angelos is not happy over the Gonzalez and Atkins signings. I've heard from two sources that MacPhail signed Gonzalez without giving him an MRI because he wanted to hurry before another team snatched him up.

Maybe that's why MacPhail is so deliberate. Quick decisions don't work out too well for him.

Good. Angelos should be mad. A GM shouldn't get a free pass from the owner. A little heat may be a good thing for MacPhail. Even the best employees occasionally need a little kick in the rear.

[Slappy]

A little nugget:

Angelos is not happy over the Gonzalez and Atkins signings. I've heard from two sources that MacPhail signed Gonzalez without giving him an MRI because he wanted to hurry before another team snatched him up.

Maybe that's why MacPhail is so deliberate. Quick decisions don't work out too well for him.

Yeah, PA has always been paranoid about injury potential. And yet his organization has still signed guys like Albert Belle, David Segui, Danys Baez, etc. So strange how fate craps on the Orioles.

[DrungoHazewood]

A little nugget:

Angelos is not happy over the Gonzalez and Atkins signings. I've heard from two sources that MacPhail signed Gonzalez without giving him an MRI because he wanted to hurry before another team snatched him up.

Maybe that's why MacPhail is so deliberate. Quick decisions don't work out too well for him.

What's most disturbing about that is the implication that MacPhail seems to believe that there are only a few good players out there, and if you don't get Gonzalez RIGHT NOW you're in trouble. Even if you have to overpay, give up a pick, and sign him without a full exam. That doesn't seem like MacPhail, it clashes with his deliberate style.

I guess he's like the rest of us. Sometimes your money is burning a hole in your pocket and you gotta do something.

Not surprising that Angelos is upset about Atkins. If he wasn't he'd be the only person in the Baltimore metro area with that opinion.

[DrungoHazewood]

Yeah, PA has always been paranoid about injury potential. And yet his organization has still signed guys like Albert Belle, David Segui, Danys Baez, etc. So strange how fate craps on the Orioles.

Sometimes you make your own fate. Segui wasn't fate - when the O's signed him in '01 he'd been in the league more than a decade and had played 140 games in a season three times.

And if they signed Gonzalez, who has some injury history, without doing the background physical work that's not fate. That's stupid.

[Orioles18]

He didn't say that. People keep saying he did, but he didn't...

This may have been responded to, but I didn't get that far yet:

Where we are now in my estimation is we're going to move back to the more traditional criteria of evaluating managers. Wins and losses. It may not always be fair, things happen. But I'd like to think we're out of that first phase of what we hoped to do and did accomplish.

Source Steve Melewski's Blog Feb 26, 2010:

http://masnsports.com/2010/02/pondering-andy-macphails-comme.html

Sorry RShack but MacPhail did say that this season was about Wins and Losses.

Thanks for the initial response to him Miller. I just got done reading pages 3-10 so I'm a little late to the party.

[DrungoHazewood]

This may have been responded to, but I didn't get that far yet:

Source Steve Melewski's Blog Feb 26, 2010:

http://masnsports.com/2010/02/pondering-andy-macphails-comme.html

Sorry RShack but MacPhail DID say that this season was about Wins and Losses.

Yea, you're engaging in some serious Clinton word parsing if you can read MacPhail's statement and, with a straight face, say that he didn't really mean this year was going to be judged on wins and losses. For the whole team.

[SilentJames]

A little nugget:

Angelos is not happy over the Gonzalez and Atkins signings. I've heard from two sources that MacPhail signed Gonzalez without giving him an MRI because he wanted to hurry before another team snatched him up.

Maybe that's why MacPhail is so deliberate. Quick decisions don't work out too well for him.

And he should be angry. Especially about Gonzo. You can talk away Atkins' failure as not really being AM's "fault" but not giving Gonzo an MRI with that horrendous windup is just a terrible blunder.

[Frobby]

And he should be angry. Especially about Gonzo. You can talk away Atkins' failure as not really being AM's "fault" but not giving Gonzo an MRI with that horrendous windup is just a terrible blunder.

If the O's didn't check on Gonzalez's health that is very, very stupid, and it fundamentally alters my view of what MacPhail did last offseason. I've got no problem with the Millwood or Miggy moves, but Atkins was stupid on its face and Gonzalez turns out to have been stupid if he wasn't checked out. I could have forgiven one dumb move out of four, but two is unacceptable, especially considering we gave up a draft pick and paid him a lot of money.

[SilentJames]

If the O's didn't check on Gonzalez's health that is very, very stupid, and it fundamentally alters my view of what MacPhail did last offseason. I've got no problem with the Millwood or Miggy moves, but Atkins was stupid on its face and Gonzalez turns out to have been stupid if he wasn't checked out. I could have forgiven one dumb move out of four, but two is unacceptable, especially considering we gave up a draft pick and paid him a lot of money.

Hopefully when AM writes his memoirs in the chapter right after he talks about the four consecutive World Series Orioles teams he crafted from '11-'14 He can talk about his biggest mistake ever in not giving Gonzo an MRI and how he learned a very real and valuable lesson.

[NewMarketSean]

As much as I hate to hear when Angelos has an opinion on the Orioles, I have to agree with him here. It would actually frighten me more if we heard he was OK with all the moves that were made this offseason. Even Angelos -- someone who has no clue how baseball works -- knows that MacPhail's offseason has grown into a disaster.

[DrungoHazewood]

If the O's didn't check on Gonzalez's health that is very, very stupid, and it fundamentally alters my view of what MacPhail did last offseason. I've got no problem with the Millwood or Miggy moves, but Atkins was stupid on its face and Gonzalez turns out to have been stupid if he wasn't checked out. I could have forgiven one dumb move out of four, but two is unacceptable, especially considering we gave up a draft pick and paid him a lot of money.

Yea.

Gonzalez with no health concerns and a reasonable chance of replicating past success = good value for $16M + a 2nd rounder.

Gonzalez just crossing your fingers he's healthy after a career high in innings/appearances = bad, bad risk for the price.

[Orioles18]

A little nugget:

Angelos is not happy over the Gonzalez and Atkins signings. I've heard from two sources that MacPhail signed Gonzalez without giving him an MRI because he wanted to hurry before another team snatched him up.

Maybe that's why MacPhail is so deliberate. Quick decisions don't work out too well for him.

I don't blame Angelos for being angry. Outside of Millwood (who's gotta be counting the days until the trade deadline) and Tejada this past offseason was a huge failure on MacPhail's behalf.

[Orioles18]

If the O's didn't check on Gonzalez's health that is very, very stupid, and it fundamentally alters my view of what MacPhail did last offseason. I've got no problem with the Millwood or Miggy moves, but Atkins was stupid on its face and Gonzalez turns out to have been stupid if he wasn't checked out. I could have forgiven one dumb move out of four, but two is unacceptable, especially considering we gave up a draft pick and paid him a lot of money.

How much are we paying Atkins to ride the pine here? (just asking becuase I seriously don't remember).

I could probably hit as well as he is right now, I'll take his salary and sit on the bench for him!

[LookinUp]

If the O's didn't check on Gonzalez's health that is very, very stupid, and it fundamentally alters my view of what MacPhail did last offseason. I've got no problem with the Millwood or Miggy moves, but Atkins was stupid on its face and Gonzalez turns out to have been stupid if he wasn't checked out. I could have forgiven one dumb move out of four, but two is unacceptable, especially considering we gave up a draft pick and paid him a lot of money.

In another thread many weeks ago, Drungo laid out the basic issue with the O's overvaluing players like Atkins when we have AAAA options that could be had for the minimum. For whatever reason, Drungo has a better way of explaining things than many of us, maybe that's why we have this .

In any event, it was at that point that I really began to question AM's ability to target the right talent and judgement in the FA market. This was a big change, considering how happy we all were with his trades in general.

The bloom is now off his rose and the spotlight is on AM. I have no idea just how mad PA is, but if AM remains with the O's this offseason, he'll need to step up his game big time.

Something tells me that he won't be though.

[JTrea81]

Hopefully when AM writes his memoirs in the chapter right after he talks about the four consecutive World Series Orioles teams he crafted from '11-'14 He can talk about his biggest mistake ever in not giving Gonzo an MRI and how he learned a very real and valuable lesson.

I'm sure it will make for a good chapter in the follow up to Entangled in Ivy titled Hitting a Brick Wall: Inside the Orioles' franchise worst era under Andy MacPhail