I thought this deserved its own thread...

[MJA3488]

Does AM have a hard budget, though? And if he does, is it broken down into sections (FAs, draft, international, etc) or does he have a pot of money he can use as he sees fit?

I doubt he has a hard budget at all. My guess is that he has the freedom to make any "small" moves hes sees fit and then has to take the larger, more expensive moves to PA. From what I know, I cant see very many things PA would say no to at this point, that's the entire reason he brought MacPhail in in the first place.

You guys think hes all about the money - he has more than enough money. He wants to win as much as everyone else around here does.

I personally think the biggest issue is what should he do. Half of the fans want him to be involved (See Schmucks article in the Sun from a couple weeks ago) and the other half wants him to have nothing to do with the team.

I thought giving MacPhail the team and telling him to make us better was the right move. Now, we're an embarrassment. If I owned this product I'd be pretty upset and it would be really difficult to just stand by this and watch. I'm sure a lot of you would be the same way.

I know a lot of you disagree, but this is one situation with the Orioles franchise that I really cant blame on PA. As much as I have stuck up for him, there are many things he did wrong in the past when it comes to the Orioles. Right now is not one of those times (unless of course you didn't like the MacPhail hiring from the beginning and wanted PA involved in the day to day operations of the team)

[LookinUp]

My interest is piqued but my skepticism of some of the opinions on this site is as well. This just stinks like a disinformation campaign right now.

Don't get me wrong, I agree that there's plenty of smoke and likely a fire. I also can't help but think that PA can't be happy that the organization committed ~$36 million to Tejada, Millwood, Atkins and Gonzalez only to see these results.

I just don't know what to expect. It's almost like Trea himself works in the warehouse and started posting on this site under a different screen name all of the sudden.

[JTrea81]

If I had to guess, Id say that AM has control over all of that and if he asked for it and said it would make the team better, he would have it. I dont think there is a dollar amount limit on something like that. Who knows, I could be 100% wrong, but from the knowledge I have I cant see that being the case.

So basically you think Angelos would give AM the money but he hasn't asked for it?

As I've alluded to before, I wonder if PGA knows AM won't ask for it, and that's why he brought him in - to save money.

However the recent results might have PGA rethinking his decision because AM isn't getting the results for his plan that would have been low cost and that all the fans used to love. And now that fans are turning on MacPhail, PGA might realize that he's got to get somebody that is more aggressive and will utilize the Orioles resources to put a winning product on the field in order to keep the fanbase the Orioles have left.

[mcgraw238]

Well, the Orioles haven't been any kind of a force in International signings since PA has been the owner.

Whether he has stepped back or not, there is nothing to suggest that he is all of a sudden in favor of throwing a lot of money into this type of thing.

Why don't we have more scouts? Better scouts?

I don't see any evidence to suggest PA is willing to spend like crazy in those areas...Maybe he is but just saying that AM has leeway only means so much...We don't know what leeway really means. We don't know how much money leeway is defined and if PA feels that the money should be spent on those things, as opposed to FAs...ie, give me wins now, don't worry about the other stuff.

I agree with everything here. Historically, it has always seemed to me that PA is willing to spend money on MLB payroll since it is something that the fans see everyday at the ball park. However, significant investments in scouting, development, and amateur bonus payments is just not something that the fans see at the ball park. Now I don't know how PA would react to the proposal to give Sano $3.5 million, but his history suggests that he would have a hard time handing that kind of cash to a 16 year old. And, probably more importantly, if I'm the GM working for PA who committed that kind of cash to a 16 year old, he better pan out or else you'll be reading stuff on a message board about PA being upset that money was spent on a busted prospect. In other words, there is no margin for error in this type of stuff when you work for PA; And we all know that a GM is never going to be perfect; Even Theo has some dud moves.

[El Gordo]

Who would benefit though?

Klentak is too new. One or both of the Stockstills might be the culprits as I believe they are well liked by PGA. I'm not sure about Jordan's intentions and Lee MacPhail is Andy's nephew...

Do you know the names of all upper level FO personnel? You've mentioned 4. Is that all there is? They all have assistants, like Duquette's guy who spilled the beans to Bigbird. These guys would be happy to whisper sweet nothings if they thought it would get their boss promoted. Also if you are one of the many peices of dead wood that people say riddle the warehouse, and you thought AM wanted you replaced, it might be in you interest to spread a little BS around.

[mcgraw238]

I doubt he has a hard budget at all. My guess is that he has the freedom to make any "small" moves hes sees fit and then has to take the larger, more expensive moves to PA. From what I know, I cant see very many things PA would say no to at this point, that's the entire reason he brought MacPhail in in the first place.

You guys think hes all about the money - he has more than enough money. He wants to win as much as everyone else around here does.

I personally think the biggest issue is what should he do. Half of the fans want him to be involved (See Schmucks article in the Sun from a couple weeks ago) and the other half wants him to have nothing to do with the team.

I thought giving MacPhail the team and telling him to make us better was the right move. Now, we're an embarrassment. If I owned this product I'd be pretty upset and it would be really difficult to just stand by this and watch. I'm sure a lot of you would be the same way.

I know a lot of you disagree, but this is one situation with the Orioles franchise that I really cant blame on PA. As much as I have stuck up for him, there are many things he did wrong in the past when it comes to the Orioles. Right now is not one of those times (unless of course you didn't like the MacPhail hiring from the beginning and wanted PA involved in the day to day operations of the team)

Thanks for the input. I hope what your saying is accurate. I still want PA nowhere near the day to day decision making. But, I have no problem with PA meeting with AM and asking "what the heck is going on?" and "How the heck are we going to fix this?" AM's seat should be somewhat warmer as a result of this season but I would not be in favor of replacing him or PA meddling in roster issues.

[MJA3488]

So basically you think Angelos would give AM the money but he hasn't asked for it?

As I've alluded to before, I wonder if PGA knows AM won't ask for it, and that's why he brought him in - to save money.

However the recent results might have PGA rethinking his decision because AM isn't getting the results for his plan that would have been low cost and that all the fans used to love. And now that fans are turning on MacPhail, PGA might realize that he's got to get somebody that is more aggressive and will utilize the Orioles resources to put a winning product on the field in order to keep the fanbase the Orioles have left.

I cant speculate as to AM asking for money and PA saying yes or no or AM not asking at all.

What I can say is that I really dont think this was ever about money. We all know the Orioles have money. Its not like PA has never spent money in the past. We cant go out and spend with the Sox and Yankees, but we have money to spend.

This plan was put into place because we cant afford to sign every great free agent and you need to have some kind of a minor league system to compete. It wasn't put in place to become the Twins or As, at least as far as I know.

[JTrea81]

Do you know the names of all upper level FO presonnel? You've mentioned 4. Is that tall there is?

Baseball Operations:

President, Baseball Operations -Andy MacPhail

Director, Amateur Scouting - Joe Jordan

Director, Baseball Operations - Matt Klentak

Director, Professional Scouting - Lee MacPhail IV

Director, Player Development - David Stockstill

Director, International Scouting - John Stockstill

Assistant Director, Player Development - Tripp Norton

Coordinator, Minor League Instructions - Brian Graham

That's what the Orioles website shows but I believe the Stockstills have switched roles...

[mcgraw238]

I think it's more of realizing that he needs to fire MacPhail and bring somebody in that will be more aggressive and spend money because Andy wants to follow a plan that will be unsuccessful.

I think you will be very dissapointed in how the money is spent. With PA there are always parameters in how the bucks should be allocated. I'd brace for a slew of 2/24 signing pushing payroll to the upper 90's. And I think we will both agree that these type of signings will not cut it.

[MJA3488]

I just think this whole situation is a lot more black and white than you guys do.

I don't think PA is sitting up in his office thinking that international scouting is a waste because people don't see that product on the field right away. From what I can gather, PA cares about the product on the field, yes, but if AM told him that the key was international scouting, we'd have better international scouting.

I'm not kidding when I say that for the last 3 years PA has been removed from daily operations. He has. I could give examples of moves he wanted made that were NOT made or even considered, but that's not something I would do.

Think about that, that's PA, the long time "meddling" owner wanting certain moves made that will not get made because he gave MacPhail control. Now could PA force any move he wanted? Sure, but he hasn't, not since MacPhail came on board and that has been the plan as far as I know.

[JTrea81]

I'm not kidding when I say that for the last 3 years PA has been removed from daily operations. He has. I could give examples of moves he wanted made that were NOT made or even considered, but that's not something I would do.

I'm going to guess that PGA wanted the Tex situation handled a bit differently...

It wouldn't shock me to hear that he wanted MacPhail to pursue a trade for Adrian Gonzalez and/or sign Matt Holliday as well, especially with Roberts openly recruiting for the latter.

[Greg Pappas]

This thread has become perhaps the single most interesting thread that we've had at the Hangout in quite some time. I am eagerly anticipating the next volley of "inside" information. I feel like a former addict who has been clean for a year and has been offered a 'taste' by a beautiful woman. Hard. To. Resist.

[TGO]

This thread has become perhaps the single most interesting thread that we've had at the Hangout in quite some time. I am eagerly anticipating the next volley of "inside" information. I feel like a former addict who has been clean for a year and has been offered a 'taste' by a beautiful woman. Hard. To. Resist.

Indeed. I wasn't really posting here much for a few weeks. The team itself really isn't very interesting. There are only so many times you can have the same discussions about Wieters, Atkins, Tillman, Jones, etc. But this has roped me back in. D'oh!

[ChaosLex]

I tell you what, apparently this thread has caught some attantion because I'm getting more and more info on the goings on. I have a very interesting meeting setup very soon.

Should I use, "Hang on for the ride?"

Honestly, this stuff is more interesting than the on field product.

I appreciate everyone being patient. As always, I have no ax to grind here, but if I find out stuff that needs to come out I will put it out.

Are you going to be wined and dined? :wedge:

[El Gordo]

Well my insider is Duquette :laughlol: and he reports that AM and PA had a screaming match recently over manager. The clubhouse is a morgue and he knows of a number of players who are willing to accept losing. That Guthrie and DT didn't see eye to eye, and because of this there is carry over, and the team is very willing to trade him.