I thought this deserved its own thread...

[El Gordo]

As were the Cubs fans that used to post here...

As were the "sources" that had BRob traded to the Cubs.

[clapdiddy]

Speaking of which, I'm still breathlessly waiting for the first prerequisite O's/Cubs Trade Rumors thread. Wither Davearm?

Now that Theriot is on the market, it just might happen!

[lostinlife28]

As were the Cubs fans that used to post here...

Living in Chicago off and on for over a decade now, I heard the same things. I just chalked it up to a fickle fan base, that has endured a WS drought of epic proportions. I never gave much credence to the AM bashers here.

Most of the current complaints about AM, are identical to the complaints from his Cubs days. Even the negative nicknames are the same. At some point it stops being hyperbole, and has to be taken as truth.

Doesn't make me feel good about the O's future at all.

[LookinUp]

As were the Cubs fans that used to post here...

The ones who thought Gallagher, Veal, Cedeno and Murton should have netted Roberts?

Maybe half right, but they turned out to over value their guys pretty drastically.

[MJA3488]

You have been coming on here for a while and have always given us info and I never would think that you are reaching or anything like that.

So, I totally believe you that this is what you are hearing.

But what you aren't hearing is what exactly that budget is and how PA would prefer it to be allocated....Seeing as we have seen the same issues with this organization for years and years, I have yet to see evidence that PA is willing to pour money into scouting and international stuff(signigns, more facilities and more int'l scouts).

I really just dont know what the budget is at all. I dont know for sure that he is willing to put money into scouting, etc. I just have a hard time believing that if AM (who he has trusted completely for 3 years) asked for it, hed say no.

[Sports Guy]

I really just dont know what the budget is at all. I dont know for sure that he is willing to put money into scouting, etc. I just have a hard time believing that if AM (who he has trusted completely for 3 years) asked for it, hed say no.

So, let's say you are right...let's say PA is fine with pouring millions and millions into scoutng, development, getting better coaches, international, etc....

If he is ok with that, then do we assume that AM is really that bad at his job and doesn't recognize the need for these things?

[mcgraw238]

I cant speculate as to AM asking for money and PA saying yes or no or AM not asking at all.

What I can say is that I really dont think this was ever about money. We all know the Orioles have money. Its not like PA has never spent money in the past. We cant go out and spend with the Sox and Yankees, but we have money to spend.

This plan was put into place because we cant afford to sign every great free agent and you need to have some kind of a minor league system to compete. It wasn't put in place to become the Twins or As, at least as far as I know.

I think this point is often missed. We have to have a vibrant player development system which would allow us to produce talent which we could lock up prior to Free Agency. We just can't go dollar for dollar with the Sox and Yankees. But if that is true, what changes has AM made to our player development system during his tenure? We know some money has been spent on the Dominican complex and a little extra on Intl scouting, but from all accounts we are still way behind in this area. Have we seen a significant house cleaning (i.e. what Bruce Allen and Shanahan are doing in DC) where all new people are coming in to revise the overall development philosophy? Generally, when an outsider is brought in (such as AM) he brings many of his guys with him and revamps the operations. Maybe this stuff has happened on the down low but I suspect that is not the case. I know SG hits on some of these points from time to time as well.

[MJA3488]

So, let's say you are right...let's say PA is fine with pouring millions and millions into scoutng, development, getting better coaches, international, etc....

If he is ok with that, then do we assume that AM is really that bad at his job and doesn't recognize the need for these things?

I really don't have an answer for that. Maybe its a combination of both - maybe PA doesn't want to put that much money into those aspects of the team. I really don't know, I just don't THINK that's the case.

[Tony-OH]

As were the "sources" that had BRob traded to the Cubs.

Yikes, that one hurt.

[beardbr]

Dang saw Tony posted and was hoping to get the skinny..

[Smokin' Joe O]

Dang saw Tony posted and was hoping to get the skinny..

Same here.

[RShack]

What's most disturbing about that is the implication that MacPhail seems to believe that there are only a few good players out there, and if you don't get Gonzalez RIGHT NOW you're in trouble. Even if you have to overpay, give up a pick, and sign him without a full exam. That doesn't seem like MacPhail, it clashes with his deliberate style.

An alternate implication is not that he thinks there are only a few good players out there, but that nobody who has a choice will come here... so, it wasn't a matter of signing him before somebody else rushed to sign him without an MRI, it was a matter of getting him inked before he changed his mind...

Not saying that makes it OK... just saying I think it's a more plausible explanation for why Mr. Careful wasn't...

[El Gordo]

I think this point is often missed. We have to have a vibrant player development system which would allow us to produce talent which we could lock up prior to Free Agency. We just can't go dollar for dollar with the Sox and Yankees. But if that is true, what changes has AM made to our player development system during his tenure? We know some money has been spent on the Dominican complex and a little extra on Intl scouting, but from all accounts we are still way behind in this area. Have we seen a significant house cleaning (i.e. what Bruce Allen and Shanahan are doing in DC) where all new people are coming in to revise the overall development philosophy? Generally, when an outsider is brought in (such as AM) he brings many of his guys with him and revamps the operations. Maybe this stuff has happened on the down low but I suspect that is not the case. I know SG hits on some of these points from time to time as well.

When AM came here we had virtually no presence in International Scouting. For most here that means the DR. Actually we have made some inroads elsewhere. How long does it take to go from nothing to major signings in the DR? From what Tony has said we have some good 'ol boys with ties to Peter in the DR dept. I expect we have a lot of that in other depts. as well. But the DR is a tricky place. You have to know who's who and what's what among the buscone, or you not only can be pouring money down the drain, you can end up on the radio instead of the FO, because you got yourself involved in "questionable activities".

You either have to replace your good ol boys whol sale with exoerienced DR hands(who may not be available or you have to weed them out over time and get good peopke in, who will need time to get the lay of the land, before they can be effective. I expect the latter is the case here.

[El Gordo]

Yikes, that one hurt.

Nothing pesonal. It's just that it's difficullt to sort out agenda's when things are as competitive as they probably are at the Warehouse now. I have a close friend, whom I trust explicitly, who told me his trusted source says Clint Eastwood swings from both sides of the plate. Should I believe it?

[mcgraw238]

When AM came here we had virtually no presence in International Scouting. For most here that means the DR. Actually we have made some inroads elsewhere. How long does it take to go from nothing to major signings in the DR? From what Tony has said we have some good 'ol boys with ties to Peter in the DR dept. I expect we have a lot of that in other depts. as well. But the DR is a tricky place. You have to know who's who and what's what among the buscone, or you not only can be pouring money down the drain, you can end up on the radio instead of the FO, because you got yourself involved in "questionable activeties".

You either have to replace your good ol boys whol sale with exoerienced DR hands(who may not be available or you have to weed them out over time and get good peopke in, who will need time to get the lay of the land, before they can be effective. I expect the latter is the case here.

I've pointed out as much as anyone that things were awful throughout the organization when AM took over and I agree that some inroads have been made in some areas. Now if there are some good 'ol boys with ties to Peter lingering around, then that is a sign that AM doesn't have total control. As I said in the earlier post, Bruce Allen & Shanahan have purged their organization of the ultimate good 'ol boys (Cerrato & Swanson). And sure, the process does take time, but maybe you go out and lure an established guy from the Marlins, RSox, etc. who bring instant credibility in this area. If its the latter of building the infrastructure from the ground up (as you suggest), I'd like to the team share some of these enhancements and maybe even accelerate things.