I thought this deserved its own thread...

[notfast]

I think its important to notice that Angelos must have really removed himself from meddling, just like we all wanted.

If he hadn't, and he really was upset with the Atkins signing, he would be forcing AM to do something (DFA) instead of sitting off to the side, like it seems he is doing.

[psk3170]

Tony does not have to say it. The problem is right there for anyone to read it. The Sun said a few weeks ago that McPhail and Angelos have been meeting more regularly right around the time Trembly was fired. Angleos is praising the Nats and how they are operating in the paper which I believe is meant to humiliate McPhail. Managerial candidates are saying that the team has problems. Valentine says that the Orioles have major problems and McPhail would be difficult to work for but he loved Angelos. Note Angelos is again very involved in the hiring process. I bet Valentines concerns stem from realizing that Angelos and McPhail are not on the same page anymore and I would bet Angelos was pointing out all of McPhails problems during the interview process. Our assitant GM bolted to the Mets this past winter after only one year on the job for the same job and we have not replaced him. McPhail is getting more and more distant from the team and not attending as many games this year. We have Dempsey poisening the well and lobbying for the managerial job every chance he gets. McPhail broke Angelos cardinal rule and looks like he may not have gotten a physical on a player that clearly needed one. McPhail is at year 3 usually the year Angelos starts getting impatient with his latest great front office hire.

TO SUM it ALL UP: Angelos is meddling again and that is never a good thing for the Orioles no matter how much he cares and wants to turn it around. McPhail will resign by the end of the season and the plan will get dramatically changed and we will be starting all over again. Because he has meddled for so long we no longer have any talent left in the front office other than Joe Jordan. He is pure poison to any hopes we have of ever competing.

[glorydays]

If the O's didn't check on Gonzalez's health that is very, very stupid, and it fundamentally alters my view of what MacPhail did last offseason. I've got no problem with the Millwood or Miggy moves, but Atkins was stupid on its face and Gonzalez turns out to have been stupid if he wasn't checked out. I could have forgiven one dumb move out of four, but two is unacceptable, especially considering we gave up a draft pick and paid him a lot of money.

Add the fact that it doesn't appear that AM checked with Crowley to see if he could correct Atkins swing before he signed him.

Also, I am OK with the Miggy move - but I still don't understand why you would bring in 2 infielders and switch their positions when you know your going to have a young pitching staff who is going to need a solid defense behind him.

I agree with everyone - I used to fully support AM but this offseason something went totally wacky with him. And I am not saying this as a rumor or as a joke - but IMO this sort of atypical behavior really sounds like a person who is addicted to pain medication or some other problem that is causing him to act out of character.

[stef]

A little nugget:

Angelos is not happy over the Gonzalez and Atkins signings. I've heard from two sources that MacPhail signed Gonzalez without giving him an MRI because he wanted to hurry before another team snatched him up.

Maybe that's why MacPhail is so deliberate. Quick decisions don't work out too well for him.

Can't blame PA for being upset about those moves—along with a lot of other people, I know I was.

McPhail should have known better, PA's interest in the health of a free agent is well documented. Remember the Aaron Sele and Xavier Hernandez non deals?

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/mariners/2004153177_mari30.html

Angelos has been known to veto deals because of health concerns. One happened before the 2000 season, when the Orioles agreed to a tentative four-year, $29 million contract with pitcher Aaron Sele, a free agent, only to nix the deal when their doctors expressed concern over Sele's shoulder after his physical.

The M's signed him to a two-year, $15 million deal, and were rewarded with a 32-15 record by Sele over those two seasons.

Angelos, with his lawyer's background, is known to be a stickler about vetting prospective Orioles players on health issues. It could date to 1999, when pitcher Xavier Hernandez signed a two-year, $2.5 million contract, then was discovered to have a partially torn rotator cuff. Angelos voided the contract, but Hernandez filed a grievance and received a $1.75 million settlement.

"When it comes to medical matters and physicals, he's on top of it," said one former Orioles executive. "He's tied in with top doctors. That's what complicates dealing with him more than anything."

But it's not just health issues that have caused Angelos to nix trades at the 11th hour.

"He tends to rely on a lot of people that don't have expertise," said one person with knowledge of the Orioles' operation. "He's not a real trusting person. He always thinks there's something wrong with the player coming his way, and he's going to get screwed."

I have a feeling PA is feeling a wee bit "screwed."

[JTrea81]

This is the time of year Angelos brought in MacPhail and ousted Flanny and Duquette without warning back in 2007.

Perlozzo was fired first, and then MacPhail was brought in shortly afterwards.

Trembley was fired earlier but it still makes you wonder if he could blindside MacPhail in a similar fashion...

[TGO]

Not getting a MRI on Gonzalez, if true, is just unforgivably stupid. I don't care about the money (though I'm sure that's Angelos's concern), I care about the second round pick. If we lost a pick for damaged goods, that's beyond pathetic decision making.

[TGO]

Can't blame PA for being upset about those moves—along with a lot of other people, I know I was.

McPhail should have known better, PA's interest in the health of a free agent is well documented. Remember the Aaron Sele and Xavier Hernandez non deals?

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/mariners/2004153177_mari30.html

I have a feeling PA is feeling a wee bit "screwed."

Jeromy Burnitz was another one of those incidents.

[MJA3488]

I just want you guys to know one thing - PA has been almost COMPLETELY uninvolved with the Orioles over the last 3 years. Why? Because every person in the world who knows anything about the Orioles said it was time for him to completely step aside. So, he hires MacPhail, gives him the keys to the castle and lets him do what he thinks is best for the team.

I only a know a few things about whats happened in the warehouse over the last month or so, but think about being in PA's position. Everyone wants you out of the way and for you to let the "baseball" people do their jobs. Well he did that and now look whats happening. At some point he has to get involved again right? And I dont mean "meddling" on trades, etc. I mean dealing with the overall problems - hiring a manager, evaluating MacPhail. (That is my opinion)

Its a double edged sword. He stepped away almost COMPLETELY for 3 years (that's a fact). As far as I know that has not changed at all and will not change anytime soon, but don't be surprised if PA starts to pay a little more attention to whats going on here. Someone has to or it might keep getting worse.

[Tony-OH]

I tell you what, apparently this thread has caught some attention because I'm getting more and more info on the goings on. I have a very interesting meeting setup very soon.

Should I use, "Hang on for the ride?"

Honestly, this stuff is more interesting than the on field product.

I appreciate everyone being patient. As always, I have no ax to grind here, but if I find out stuff that needs to come out I will put it out.

[Sports Guy]

I tell you what, apparently this thread has caught some attantion because I'm getting more and more info on the goings on. I have a very interesting meeting setup are very soon.

Should I use, "Hang on for the ride?"

Honestly, this stuff is more interesting than the on field product.

I appreciate everyone being patient. As always, I have no ax to grind here, but if I find out stuff that needs to come out I will put it out.

Interesting...But how sad is it that hearing bad stuff is more interesting than watching the team? I mean, isn't that a big issue in and of itself?

[Tony-OH]

I just want you guys to know one thing - PA has been almost COMPLETELY uninvolved with the Orioles over the last 3 years. Why? Because every person in the world who knows anything about the Orioles said it was time for him to completely step aside. So, he hires MacPhail, gives him the keys to the castle and lets him do what he thinks is best for the team.

I only a know a few things about whats happened in the warehouse over the last month or so, but think about being in PA's position. Everyone wants you out of the way and for you to let the "baseball" people do their jobs. Well he did that and now look whats happening. At some point he has to get involved again right? And I dont mean "meddling" on trades, etc. I mean dealing with the overall problems - hiring a manager, evaluating MacPhail. (That is my opinion)

Its a double edged sword. He stepped away almost COMPLETELY for 3 years (that's a fact). As far as I know that has not changed at all and will not change anytime soon, but don't be surprised if PA starts to pay a little more attention to whats going on here. Someone has to or it might keep getting worse.

Some pretty good points here. I have to imagine it's very hard to give someone pretty much full control only to have a laughing stock team three years later.

It's not surprising to me at all that Angelos would be in the managerial hiring meetings. As much as people like to bash Angelos, he's not dumb, and he certainly can not be happy where things are right now.

[Austin]

Well, this might be a long shot, but maybe this will be a wakeup call to Angelos that he actually needs to start spending some serious money to compete in this division.

[El Gordo]

Not getting a MRI on Gonzalez, if true, is just unforgivably stupid. I don't care about the money (though I'm sure that's Angelos's concern), I care about the second round pick. If we lost a pick for damaged goods, that's beyond pathetic decision making.

How does this make sense? The MRI, if given would have been given during a physical, which only occurs after a contract has been agreed to. So if the reason for not getting one done was to sign Gonzo ahead of other offers, that doesn't fly.

[whatagame]

Something I posted almost two months ago:

This team has improved only to be worse

That is what is so frustrating. That also means to me there is a festering problem that needs to come to the surface. I think this thing with Cal and DT saying He's tired of covering up are signs of things coming to a head. (IT was good to see the Trembley I had so much hope for a couple years ago.) If they continue to cover up and suppress the real problem all the rebuilding etc. will not change anything. I don't claim to know the real problem but I'm convinced there is something that is not being addressed because they regress even when good changes are made. These might just be rantings coming from years of frustration. Maybe it's as simple as the the O's are cursed. But I think Think if the real problem, whatever it is, isn't exposed and seriously dealt with this team will be on it's perpetual deathbed.

[JTrea81]

Well, this might be a long shot, but maybe this will be a wakeup call to Angelos that he actually needs to start spending some serious money to compete in this division.

I think it's more of realizing that he needs to fire MacPhail and bring somebody in that will be more aggressive and spend money because Andy wants to follow a plan that will be unsuccessful.