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The "they don't want to come here" excuse


JTrea81

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How do you feel about the Tex situation knowing that we made a relatively early 7/140 offer before the Yankees ever entered the picture, and then were told in no uncertain terms that Tex wasn't interested in playing for us at any price? (Remembering what Schmuck said a few weeks ago.)

Is it a fair excuse then? Tex signed for higher, but the assumption is that the O's wouldn't have signed him at that number (or any reasonable, higher number) either. The timing of things often makes it tough to nail down what factors are to blame in situations such as these, especially if we bow out early, with the highest standing offer (like we did for Tex).

I think people know how I feel about the Tex situation. Had we offered 8/184 on the first day of FA and been extremely aggressive in recruiting Tex, maybe we would have looked more attractive but as MacPhail said at the beginning of this year, they had no intention of paying him what the Yankees gave him so they weren't going to get him anyway. And I think their recruiting effort had a similar tone, thus Tex wasn't interested in changing his #1 preference of the Yankees. You've got to make a player feel wanted and show that you are committed to winning if you want to change their mind. The Orioles did neither with Teixeira.

With Beltre, Showalter can convince him they are committed to winning IMO, as well as the actions they would take like trading for Prince Fielder or Adrian Gonzalez for instance. And then MacPhail has to offer an overpayment in the contract as well.

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It's not complicated. "They don't want to come here" is very simple shorthand for "It would take a drastic and stupid overpayment to get them to come here".

End of story, but sadly not of thread.

I think you have to distinguish between overpayments that are acceptable, and those that are drastic and stupid. You have to at least make the effort to get the players we target to come. Assuming that they won't come, and therefore not making the best effort to get them here, is a very poor way to run a business.

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And if we keep thinking this, we'll never land the talent we need to compete.

We can keep playing it safe and continue to keep missing the playoffs year after year, or we can actually acquire the talent we need to get there by taking risks on guys like Beltre.

Year 5 of a contract like that won't look as bad if we make the playoffs consistently for years 2-4.

TampaBayRaysLogo.jpg

Hi, I'm the Tampa Bay Rays. Have we met?

I'd submit the past 4 years as evidence you don't have to spend a load of money to be competitive in the American League East.

Let me guess.... their window is closed, right?

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TampaBayRaysLogo.jpg

Hi, I'm the Tampa Bay Rays. Have we met?

I'd submit the past 4 years as evidence you don't have to spend a load of money to be competitive in the American League East.

Let me guess.... their window is closed, right?

I'm pretty sure that's what one of our posters said last year at this time. ;)

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Sorry, it doesn't appear you get it. Take Beltre e.g., Boras is looking for a chump team to up the bidding. Beltre wants a minimum of 15 M per and 4 years. And he wants to play on the WC. So Boston will go 4/52. He needs to get the LAAA to 4/60 at least. He gets the O's involved to up the offer, so LAAA gives him the 4/60 + he wants.

I understand the premise of Jtrea's points on this, but this is how I see things playing out considering that Boras is his agent.

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Of course he is.

You know and I know that he probably means this literally. When Beltre lands elsewhere and we don't hear him say "I didn't want to go to Baltimore" (because who really says that?) we're going to be inundated with post after post about how he wanted to come here but MacPhail botched the whole thing.

I don't see how anything I posted proves his point. They don't want to come here, IMO, for the reasons I posted. You can give a 101 different reasons why they haven't come here if it makes you feel better, but that doesn't change the facts...the Orioles are not a prime FA destination for good ballplayers and we all know that it won't be until they're competitive in the standings and in the front office when that will change.

Do the final two months of the 2010 season permanently erase the stench of losing that's been stagnant over OPACY for the past 13 years? I can't help but think "no".

His post isn't entirely incorrect, but the facts remain that "they don't want to come here" isn't an excuse. It's a fact. The past decade is the evidence.

This and the fact that even if the words "I don't want to come here", came out of their mouths, he would still spin it.

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There really isn't anything wrong with what JTrea said. The O's should be rolling out the red carpet for guys they really want. But what do they do? We don't know but it doesn't involve a red carpet. We hear about other teams' GM's courting players all the time. Why would the Orioles, a horrible team for years, not do this? They should be pulling out all the stops to compensate for their shortfalls. I also believe that the modern day athlete wants to feel wanted in addition to being paid. They have huge egos.

If I were AM and I had serious interest in Beltre (or any other FA), I would drive or fly down to where they are, take them to dinner, put together a video of highlights from the last O's season as well as some highlights from previous O's glory years -- and say, "We feel like YOU are what will get us back to THIS" with a picture of Eddie and Cal drinking champagne from a bottle on the screen.

IN the end, if AM gets a player signed -- that's all that really matters -- even if he doesn't go all out. But it would be nice to see the Orioles try a little harder to sign the guys they really like -- the guys they SHOULD actually sign.

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It is my hope that there are some quality Free Agents who know Buck and believe in his ability to produce a winner in Baltimore who would want to play for him.

Further, I'm hoping that the results he helped the team to produce after he took over last season, the quality coaches he is bringing in (who also have their supporters among the ML players), the facility upgrades the O's are making in Florida and OPACY, etc. can be used to point to an organization on the upswing.

If the O's can couple these things with offering the best deal, not just a "competitive" deal (whatever that means), then I'm hoping they can land a top FA or two.

The O's can't even get coaches here that know Buck. Players even know Buck less and Baltimore is not an enticing place to play. We have to overpay a FA or hope we sign a free agent that has a really good year like Huff did.

What I have heard and read Pena would come here. This is the type of player we could sign and maybe with a new team he has a really good year.

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It's rare to flat out hear someone say "I don't want to go there."

But you've got to be pretty naive to not understand why players don't want to come here. We're not competitive and haven't been for a very, very long time. I don't want to say we're baseball's Siberia but we almost are.

Trea, we're not competitive...in the standings or in offering contracts. You're absolutely wrong, they don't want to come here. And they haven't wanted to for quite some time. Can you prove me wrong?

Hey - the "culture of losing" is finally dead. Didn't you hear Trea say so?

:D

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TampaBayRaysLogo.jpg

Hi, I'm the Tampa Bay Rays. Have we met?

I'd submit the past 4 years as evidence you don't have to spend a load of money to be competitive in the American League East.

Let me guess.... their window is closed, right?

All depends on how the offseason goes.

The Rays also had 10 years to build up their scouting and development to where they are now which is why they are where they are.

I don't want to see this team have to lose for 6 more years to make it to the playoffs when that doesn't have to happen given their resources.

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TampaBayRaysLogo.jpg

Hi, I'm the Tampa Bay Rays. Have we met?

I'd submit the past 4 years as evidence you don't have to spend a load of money to be competitive in the American League East.

Let me guess.... their window is closed, right?

The Orioles haven't met their scouting department, international signing department, or even drafting department yet...

Their accounting departments may have met though. But the accounting department didn't share that you can't just be cheap - you actually have to spend money in some areas.

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Sorry, it doesn't appear you get it. Take Beltre e.g., Boras is looking for a chump team to up the bidding. Beltre wants a minimum of 15 M per and 4 years. And he wants to play on the WC. So Boston will go 4/52. He needs to get the LAAA to 4/60 at least. He gets the O's involved to up the offer, so LAAA gives him the 4/60 + he wants.

And if that's how it plays out, then Beltre would have wanted to go to LA the whole time and just wanted to get them over $60M. Otherwise, he would have Boras continue to keep bidding the price up and we would still (theoretically) have a chance (although at those prices it might not make sense for us).

As an agent Boras has to work for his client. He has two options, depending on what Beltre tells him he wants: bid up the price as high as possible period, or maximize the amount he can get from a specific team or set of teams. If Beltre chooses the latter strategy, then we can try to change his mind, like JTrea suggests, but if he doesn't budge, then yes we are basically stuck in a "he doesn't want to come here" situation. The latter strategy is what seems to have happened with Teixeira. Everything Boras did was designed to put him in pinstripes at a sufficiently high price.

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