Texas back in on vlad ...not happy with os offer

[GoldGlove21]

The O's need a real GM, MacFail is soft, weak, and cheap, stupid bum .

We are talking about a one year rental in Guerrero. He was really good in the first half of the season and bad the second half/playoffs. I would like to add him, but if anything he sures up a slightly above average offense. We still have a team that revolves around our young pitching. As we saw last year, if they pitch well then we can compete, if not then we are terrible.

I think the Orioles could sign Guerrero and deal him if he hit well over the first halh of the season, but who is our competition? When a guy like Tex hits the open market he uses his suitors to open his price and then signs where he wants to play. On the flip side, Guerrero wants to ignore the lack of suitors and sign the contract he wants. I think Texas may have made him an offer and told him to go find a better offer. He is trying to get a two year deal from someone. Guerrero may want a two year deal at $6M-$7M per year, but he is not finding that anywhere.

I do not think Guerrero's camp is doing anything wrong, but neither are the Orioles.

[backwardsk]

The only way Vladdy gets the big payday he wants is to play everyday ,which the Orioles can guarantee him.

He's made $117mm+ in his career. 2011 is not going to be a big payday for him (comparatively) either way. It's not about the dollars to him, imo. It's about the respect. This is a guy who's had a great career, but can't find a team that really wants him. After playing in the World Series last season, he wants to be on a contending team where he has an important role. That situation does not appear to exist.

[hoosiers]

I would be shocked if the Os refused to increase their offer, but I would imagine there has to be some indication from Vlad that he will budge from 1/$8M or 2/$16M and would be serious about signing in Bmore.

[eddie83]

He's made $117mm+ in his career. 2011 is not going to be a big payday for him (comparatively) either way. It's not about the dollars to him, imo. It's about the respect. This is a guy who's had a great career, but can't find a team that really wants him. After playing in the World Series last season, he wants to be on a contending team where he has an important role. That situation does not appear to exist.

I hear you but if he wants a big deal next year his best way is to play everyday this year. If he going to not be a regular next year how much could he make? He wanted a two year deal.

[backwardsk]

I hear you but if he wants a big deal next year his best way is to play everyday this year. If he going to not be a regular next year how much could he make? He wanted a two year deal.

I agree with this. But after having the season he had last season and drawing minimal interest, he's got to wonder if that deal will even be out there next year.

[Frobby]

I agree with this. But after having the season he had last season and drawing minimal interest, he's got to wonder if that deal will even be out there next year.

It really is kind of astounding that you can hit .300 with 29 HR and 115 RBI and draw such minimal interest. Granted, he was helped by his ballpark and he had a mediocre 2nd half of the season, but you'd still think there'd be several teams lining up to make him their DH.

The thing about Vlad I find incredible is that he struck out only 60 times in 643 PA. He may look like he's old and creaky when he gets in the batters' box, but there is no sign he can't hit the ball often and with authority.

[eddie83]

I agree with this. But after having the season he had last season and drawing minimal interest, he's got to wonder if that deal will even be out there next year.

I think he and his agent screwed up, had they not been so adamant about a 2 yr deal I think he would of been signed by now and made much more money then he will probably wind up with.

Very rarely nowadays will aging players who can't play the field get a 2 yr contract no matter how good their last season was.

[Steve I]

I think he and his agent screwed up, had they not been so adamant about a 2 yr deal I think he would of been signed by now and made much more money then he will probably wind up with.

Very rarely nowadays will aging players who can't play the field get a 2 yr contract no matter how good their last season was.

Somebody is going to overpay and I would prefer it be the O's. This is a good chance to get a steal. Underbidding doesn't help.

[backwardsk]

It really is kind of astounding that you can hit .300 with 29 HR and 115 RBI and draw such minimal interest. Granted, he was helped by his ballpark and he had a mediocre 2nd half of the season, but you'd still think there'd be several teams lining up to make him their DH.

The thing about Vlad I find incredible is that he struck out only 60 times in 643 PA. He may look like he's old and creaky when he gets in the batters' box, but there is no sign he can't hit the ball often and with authority.

I guess those 14 spots fill up quickly. There are four teams, according to MLBTraderumors, linked to him: Balt, LAA, TOR, Tex

Cleveland owes Hafner, who can't play the field $26mm over the next 2 seasons so they're out.

Chicago chose to go with a younger guy who they figure can play a lot longer (Dunn)

Boston chose to pay $12.5 on the 2011 club option for Ortiz. If they knew they'd land Crawford and Gonzalez, and could get Vlad for half of Ortiz' contract, I wonder if they'd do it

Oakland quickly jumped on Matsui, who's year wasn't as good as Vlad's, but not too far off, and signed him for $4.5mm

Seattle: Bradley's owed $12mm and they signed Cust for $2.5 in case Bradley goes off the deep end.

Minnesota kept the guy they liked for $3mm + incentives

Kansas City signed their best player but may want to use the DH spot in order to evaulate Ka'aihue. Maybe they should be involved in Vlad

Tampa, being cash strapped, spends $6.5mm on two guys who could share left and DH

That leaves NY and Detroit. I could see the Yankees making a late play even though the better play may be to keep the DH spot open to rotate Posada and Rodriguez in there.

Detroit: Is Magglio considered to be strictly a DH now? I know that they'd like to get action for Boesch and Rayburn on the corners. I guess they also want the DH spot for Martinez because he won't get many ABs at 1st.

So in addition to the four teams connected to Vlad, maybe NYY and KC should make a play for him.

[jiminnj]

It really is kind of astounding that you can hit .300 with 29 HR and 115 RBI and draw such minimal interest. Granted, he was helped by his ballpark and he had a mediocre 2nd half of the season, but you'd still think there'd be several teams lining up to make him their DH.

The thing about Vlad I find incredible is that he struck out only 60 times in 643 PA. He may look like he's old and creaky when he gets in the batters' box, but there is no sign he can't hit the ball often and with authority.

I suspect that many baseball people think that Glad might not be anymore than a part-time DH next year. He missed significant time in 2009 and finished 2010 hobbling around the outfield in the playoffs. How much production is he going to give in 350 ABs? Is he capable log being a full-time player anymore?

[CharmCityCrab]

What I think is lost in posts like this, and others like this, is that this Vlad dance was a pleasant surprise, not something most people really expected. So, it seems people are getting upset at something I would have seen as a cherry on top of the off-season. Perhaps I'll be lambasted with "That's the problem, Os fans don't expect deals like this to get done," posts, but the fact is, we've had a VERY good off-season. I wouldn't be upset if we made no further moves.

A 3B who hit .198 and a 1B who is 35 and posted below league average stats for his position last year does not a good off-season make for a team that hasn't won in 13 years. It could have been worse, certainly, but we didn't exactly make a huge splash. With bullpen improvements, I'll charitably give it a C-.

[wildcard]

I think most of these reports are probably in the ball park they just are not in the right context.

The O's probably offered Vald 2-3M guaranteed. There are probably incentives that can get him to 5M. Vlad wants more money guarantee and would really like to 8M, so he is trying to find other teams that will offer what he wants.

I don't anyone else is going to do much better. He might get a little more guaranteed but I doubt he gets a contract that will pay him more than 5m.

This is just my guess.

[Can_of_corn]

A 3B who hit .198 and a 1B who is 35 and posted below league average stats for his position last year does not a good off-season make for a team that hasn't won in 13 years. It could have been worse, certainly, but we didn't exactly make a huge splash. With bullpen improvements, I'll charitably give it a C-.

Why do you keep harping on batting average?

Who cares what his batting average was?

[statman]

And neither do the Orioles....which is why signing him is unwarranted, even for $2-3M. Vlad is now an aging, one-dimensional player, with declining skills. He is much more likely to do a Sammy Sosa impersonation than deliver the .300/30/100 that many here seem to expect.

People are making all of these "Sosa" analogies with Vlad. First, I am under the assumption that Sosa roided, and as with the roiders we have seen (Manny, Ortiz, Arod), declined significantly upon coming clean. We acquired Sosa in 2005, the season after this was passed:

Jan. 13, 2005: During a quarterly owners' meeting in Scottsdale, Ariz., the owners vote unanimously to accept recently concluded negotiations between MLB and the union strengthening the drug program. The new punitive measures for Major Leaguers are a 10-day suspension for the first positive test, 30 days for the second, 60 days for the third, and one year for the fourth. All without pay. On the first positive, the players name is released to the public. The program is separated from the Basic Agreement, which expires on Dec. 19, 2006, and is extended until 2008.

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/news/drug_policy.jsp?content=timeline

Something tells me that Sosa immediately put down the needle because of the part in bold...leading to the dip in numbers we saw during his 2005 campaign with the Orioles...and his retirement shortly thereafter, 1 season removed from hitting 35 home runs. This wasn't because of age. If it wasn't for the roids, he probably would have declined much earlier...but Vlad HASN'T.

Ignore what you saw in the outfield against the Giants...he isn't a field player and we all know that. That is akin to judging Brian Matusz on his batting skills. He won't be doing it so why bring it up?...If you're really going to make injury predictions on the guy, you should know that he has only missed "significant" time during 2 of his 14 full seasons, and in those two seasons he played in 100 and 112 games, respectively. That's pretty darn good for being hurt...Despite what you may classify as "failing the eye test", the guy has been a durable, good hitter for his entire career and his numbers prove it. He is an upgrade in our lineup, end of story.

[lint06]

A 3B who hit .198 and a 1B who is 35 and posted below league average stats for his position last year does not a good off-season make for a team that hasn't won in 13 years. It could have been worse, certainly, but we didn't exactly make a huge splash. With bullpen improvements, I'll charitably give it a C-.

I love the simple stats, as well. But in this case, avg. doesn't tell the whole story.