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Jones growing up, calming down

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El Gordo Hangout Grand Counsel

El Gordo

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Yep, that's all true if you selectively pick your facts. You start off relying only on UZR, then switch to the range-only component of +/- (only secondarily admitting his arm is good, but failing to mention that moves him well up the overall CF fielding rankings). Then you specifically limit playing time to a range that gerrymanders him into looking worse than he is.If you use a consensus of UZR, overall +/-, total zone, and the fans' survey for fielding, and a fair sampling of his peers on offense you would probably come to the conclusion that he's above average. But that doesn't mix well with your opinion that he's a nonstop hype machine that seems to think he's the love child of Willie Mays and Honus Wagner, so instead we get your carefully slanted viewpoint.
Not sure where you are getting this. Jones has 1654 PA from 2008 -2010. So I picked a group of CF that had 1600 PA minimum. What group would you feel is more representative? I gave his rankings wiithin this group for WAR, wOBA, BA, SLG, and OBP. All of which show him towards the bottom of that group except BA. How is taking a group of CF who are full time starting players at his position, as AJ is, gerrymandering?

Would a group that includes eveyone who ever played CF in that time span be more accurate in your mind? What group would you select to compare him with?So you don't like UZR. I listed the FB ranking in terms of +- which shows his comparative range and his arm rankings. I did omit his HR robbing numbers which they also factor in to his RS total. I simply wanted to point out that in terms of range, FB ranks him well down the list of CF in 2009 and 2010. Where on the FB section of the Bill James site, do they show a complete ranking of players in terms of RS? As far as I can tell they only show the top 10 for each season and Jones isn't in that group. What is your notion of his ranking in terms of FB RS(which compares to rtot and UZR)? I stand by my description of Jones as a CF who hits for modest average, modest power and poor OBP. He has a limited range and an excellent arm. If you want to say that's average fine, I don't think it is.

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scOtt Hangout Grand Counsel

scOtt

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Not sure where you are getting this. Jones has 1654 PA from 2008 -2010. So I picked a group of CF that had 1600 PA minimum. What group would you feel is more representative? I gave his rankings wiithin this group for WAR, wOBA, BA, SLG, and OBP. All of which show him towards the bottom of that group except BA. How is taking a group of CF who are full time starting players at his position, as AJ is, gerrymandering?

Would a group that includes eveyone who ever played CF in that time span be more accurate in your mind? What group would you select to compare him with?So you don't like UZR. I listed the FB ranking in terms of +- which shows his comparative range and his arm rankings. I did omit his HR robbing numbers which they also factor in to his RS total. I simply wanted to point out that in terms of range, FB ranks him well down the list of CF in 2009 and 2010. Where on the FB section of the Bill James site, do they show a complete ranking of players in terms of RS? As far as I can tell they only show the top 10 for each season and Jones isn't in that group. What is your notion of his ranking in terms of FB RS(which compares to rtot and UZR)? I stand by my description of Jones as a CF who hits for modest average, modest power and poor OBP. He has a limited range and an excellent arm. If you want to say that's average fine, I don't think it is.

How exactly do you think we could do significantly better then? Especially with Jones hitting 6th or 7th?

And if you say swapping him and Pie in left and center I'm going to neg rep you!

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El Gordo Hangout Grand Counsel

El Gordo

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In what way is this a response to the post you quoted? I'm talking about how I think Jones ranks with other CF of similar playing time. What are you talking about? Who would be a better CF? I'd rather have Josh Hamilton, Carlos Gonzalez, Auston Jackson, Andres Torres, Colby Rasmus, Andrew McCutchen, Brett Gardner, Chris Young, Shane Victorino, for starters. And threatening to negative rep me for whatever my opinion might be is beyond childish.:rolleyestf:

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scOtt Hangout Grand Counsel

scOtt

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In what way is this a response to the post you quoted? I'm talking about how I think Jones ranks with other CF of similar playing time. What are you talking about? Who would be a better CF? I'd rather have Josh Hamilton, Carlos Gonzalez, Auston Jackson, Andres Torres, Colby Rasmus, Andrew McCutchen, Brett Gardner, Chris Young, Shane Victorino, for starters. And threatening to negative rep me for whatever my opinion might be is beyond childish.:rolleyestf:

I didn't ask who was better. I asked how you think this team could have DONE better. I'm damn glad to have Adam, with all his faults. For several years yet, and not that damn expensive.

EDIT: Of COURSE I'd rather have frickin' McCutchen! WhoTF wouldn't??? But he was NEVER an option for us! Explain some way we could have done better.

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hoosiers Hangout Grand Counsel

hoosiers

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Two things:

First, Brittany Ghiroli - great stuff. Possibly the best writer covering the Os today. What an excellent article. Quotes from GM MacPhail, former teammate Hunter, current teammate Markakis, Jones himself, coach Showalter, former teammate/spring training teammate Winn. All woven together quite nicely.

AJ had a huge game tonight. That bunt was outstanding. The steal was easy. The HR was crushed. The sac fly was very nice - something Nick failed at completely around the fifth or so. There is a lot to work with here already as pointed out by Drungo's stats and AJ figures to only get better.

Not sure where the criticism of AJ as a teammate or someone deciphering Nick's quotes in a negative manner comes from.

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OFFNY Hangout Grand Counsel

OFFNY

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SECOND INNING: Adam Jones gets on base with a bunt-single, steals second base, and score on a Mark Reynolds single to the the game at 2-2.

SIXTH INNING: Adam Jones hits a 2-run home run to tie the game at 4-4.

SEVENTH INNING: Adam Jones hits an RBI-sacrifice fly to give the Orioles a 6-5 lead.

Last night, Adam Jones = TEAM PLAYER

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