A few things

[JTrea81]

So if we acquire Bay are we going to flip him or are we going to try to extend him? If the plan is to keep him, I think we keep Roberts and try to extend Bedard. Bay would be a nice bat to put behind Markakis...

[davearm]

Bay hasn't been part of Baltimore's failed equation, the culture of losing here. Obviously, we need to get better on a lot of fronts but we also need to get, ummm, different. Sometimes it helps to open the windows and let some fresh new air in the place.

Bay hasn't been part of Baltimore's failed equation and the O's culture of losing.

He's been a part of Pittsburgh's.

[WhoRU]

Bay hasn't been part of Baltimore's failed equation and the O's culture of losing.

He's been a part of Pittsburgh's.

This is off the topic but it is really sad to see these two formerly great franchses strugging so much.

[Jammer7]

I don't buy that at all. Even if that were the case, then why not just sign a "name" free agent ?

Why give up prospects/trading chips up for a guy that supposed to keep fair weather fans interested ?

And why go after an obscure Canadian player who has been playing in Pittsburgh if the goal is a name player to keep fair weather fans interested ?

I agree with CalJr here. Bay is a player who can replace some of the offense and give the lineup some credibility in the #4 slot. You have to replace Miggy, Mora and possibly Roberts and Hernandez. I have no problem trading Cabrera and Reimold for Bay at all for all of the aforementioned reasons by SG and others. You have to score some runs for the young pitchers not to totally give up on the team. And, by all accounts, he's a good guy in the clubhouse and brings the intangibles to the park every day. A nice change from Miguel Tejada, Melvin Mora and Ramon Hernandez. He may be a guy that can help ease the transition of Wieters, Snyder and Rowell into Baltimore over the next few years. They may even have designs on signing him to an extension if he rebounds. The guy is an all-star when he's right physically.

Reimold may or may not attain the level of Bay. He hasn't been healthy enough in the last two years to tell if he has a shot or not. He has all the tools, no doubt. Will he ever hit the slider down and away? Will he be able to lay off the same off the plate? Big questions for a guy that cannot stay healthy.

I also have no problem sending Liz and Penn out as we may well get some other young arms that are better in the eyes of our scouts. Josh Outman from the Phillies would be nice. http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Josh%20Outman&pos=P&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=489189Maybe Clayton Kershaw from the Dodgers is another. There will probably be a few more targeted by AM in the trades he has planned. Plus, we have Spoone, David Hernandez, and Erbe are more well thought of by our organization, along with Olson.

I'll just have to trust AM and his scouts to evaluate players and make the moves he sees fit. If John Schuerholz were our GM and traded Penn, Liz, Reimold and Cabrera...would you question him with his track record? Well, AM has a pretty good track record too, though not the same as Schuerholz, it is still pretty darn good. Could it be we overvalue our prospects...say it isn't so.

[orioles119]

This is off the topic but it is really sad to see these two formerly great franchses strugging so much.

1979 is such a long time ago.

[NoVaO]

First acquire the young talent and then sort out which of your prospects you would be willing to trade for more accomplished players. No trade for Bay should be made until a long-term foundation has been established (with trades of Bedard, Roberts, and Tejada and money put into international scouting/development) and you can determine which prospects are expendable while still maintaining depth in your system.

In a bunch of the realistic trades that have been proposed on here, much of the time first base was the one position that still needed to be filled. So, if Bay came at the cost of Cabrera, Reimold, and a guy like Hoey (which I don't think is enough) and we went through with our other trades, I wouldn't have a problem acquiring Bay and plugging him in at first base.

I believe 2008 would be a rebuilding year, with a long shot at competing in 2009 and then making a leap in 2010. With Bay, you may be able to accelerate your rebuilding process by a year if he bounces back. Or if he bounces back and we still aren't any good, you can ship him off for a similar type of package we gave up for him. Or you can keep him and hopefully collect the draft picks when he becomes a free agent.

So I could envision a scenario where we could trade for him, but not until this organization has its much need overhaul.

[Ofanslikepain]

For everyone saying that trading for Bay is not what we should be doing because it is not all out rebuilding by getting one of the best hitters in the game at age 29, my question for you is do you think we should go after Tex next year? Wont he cost us draft picks and is only a year and a half younger than Bay with both posting similar numbers. With Bay you lose prospects and either add him as a major piece in trying to win in 2 years or get 2 draft picks for him. With Tex you give up two picks and have to sign him a to huge contract and if we still dont turn it around you have a bad contract on your hands. I just want to make sure that everyone that is against Bay is also against Tex. Because I believe we should get Bay even if it cost more than Cabrera and Rem. I would even throw in a Beato. Prospects are not worth more than proven players if the proven player is not that old and the prospects are not "cant miss" prospects. I would get Bay and still go after Tex next year and all of a sudden your rebuilding process went alot fast than thought. Still trade Tejada, Mora and Hernandez at the deadline. Try to extend Bedard, Roberts and Bay then if you have Tex here your core looks very competitive. Hitters like Roberts, Bay, Tex and a young Weiters, Rowell and Pie. And pitchers like Bedard, Loewen, Olsen, Liz, Penn. Maybe if you feel like you can make a run with this core you trade some of the younger prospects for a proven pitcher. Or wont Burnett be a FA by then? You add him to this core and if the pitching develops well this team would compete.

[ijoshyounot]

Didn't read the whole thread so sorry if this idea was already mentioned but what if we also take Jack Wilson's contract with Bay to ensure that we still get some nice prospects. That way we feel our SS hole with a defensively strong guy which is seemingly in line with the new MacPhail Trembley philosophy. Also it aids our rebuilding process by ensuring that we get more prospects in return. Basically, since we arent actually a small market team we can essentially pay for prospects by agreeing to take on some mediocre contracts. Anyone think there is potential to this idea? Am I undervaluing Jack Wilson?

[ijoshyounot]

What if you trade Reimold as part of a package for Bay, Bay has a really good 1st half, then you trade Bay to a contender for a package with players better than Reimold? I'd say that is a decent possibility.

Classic buy low sell high if it works. MacPhail knows his stuff and I think its fair to say that he knows if he wants to rebuild such a weak organization, its going to require him to be clever--this would qualify as clever IMO.

[Baltoravensrule]

Why trade Penn? Whats his value now? Has to be at a near all time low

[wildcard]

Seems like Cabrera and Reimold for Bay and Marte then extending Bay is a strategy to keep and extend Bedard and BRob. I like that because that is what I want to see happen.

Miggy for Pie and Cedeno would probably be the next step.

As a #4 hitter, the O's probably do not want to extend Miggy but they would probably want to extend Bay if he can rebound from his bad year.

Getting something valuable for Cabrera by packaging his with Reimold makes some sense. Marte would be the O's setup man. His contract could also be renegotiate and extended instead of picking up his $6M option in 2009.

I doubt that McPhail is looking at Bay or Marte as short term moves.

I am not a fan of Cedeno, but McPhail might be.

[nyjimbo]

The point on Bay is he's not even 30 years old yet. He could be a valuable trading chip in future OR a 8 year fixture before and during our return to being a competitive team. I would put Bedard and Roberts in the same. By building the farm system we could then have replacements when the 35+ year old players skills start to decline. That is a semi-blow it up theory that I feel AM will try to accomplish, and I think it's the right way to go about it.

[mikezpen]

Lots of talk with the Pirates and there may well be a multi player deal here. Bay and Marte are two guys we've asked about.

I think you'd see Penn, Liz, maybe Reimold included in trades here.Pitts wants prospects.Not quite sure what to think about this.

He still thinks Tejada ends up with the Cubs. Doesn't think there's much of a chance a deal with NYY can be worked out.

That's a shame, because the Yankees farm system, even w/o the "Big Three", matches up very well w/us.Is Felix Pie really THAT great?

Mora to Philly is a possibility. Looking at prospects in return.

good. I'd like them to move Mora.Look for a couple of low minors guys w/a lot of potential upside. You aren't getting any good, major league ready prospects for him.He mite add to a larger trade package, too.

Still can't find a trader for Hernandez.

Good. I'm not that hot on trading him right now, anyway.They'll have nothing but Osik/Bako types to replace him with unless you're willing to lose a draft pick, and his value's at low ebb.He's another guy you s/hold on to and trade later assuming he recovers and Wieters is getting close.

FO is really high on lower level pitching prospect. Wouldn't be surprised to see Penn, Liz and others traded this winter.

Agree w/the poster who notes that Penn's value is way down.Liz-is he just another Danial Cabrera who w/b leading the world in walks 5 years from now? What w/these guys really fetch?

Free agent signings will be limited to pitching and backups.

I'd love them to sign Chris Gomez back, frankly. I think you'll see a veteran starter signed because there's a hole in the rotation-quite possibly a closer, too.

Has not heard of any talks about free agents from Japan

No big deal right now since FAs aren't really what they need. But I'd like to see them start developing a scouting network in Asia now.

Tried to drum up interest in Millar and Huff last week.

Keep drummin' and good luck.

Not much expected to happen before the winter meetings.

I'm sure it won't. Steroids list is hanging over the Orioles like a cloud.

[NattyBo]

Exactly. Bay is a nice "buy-low" player for a team that needs one more piece. We need about 10 pieces.

Hopefully no one else has already posted this. I think we're only getting part of the story about Bay/Marte. Just a hunch, but I would bet this might be part of a three-way trade. Trading for those two doesn't sound in line with AM's strategy. We will probably be able to get more if we're able to package one of them with another one of our position players. Thoughts?

[blahblah]

The point on Bay is he's not even 30 years old yet. He could be a valuable trading chip in future OR a 8 year fixture before and during our return to being a competitive team. I would put Bedard and Roberts in the same. By building the farm system we could then have replacements when the 35+ year old players skills start to decline. That is a semi-blow it up theory that I feel AM will try to accomplish, and I think it's the right way to go about it.

I'm not trying to be snippy here...but I keep seeing posts here and there about players (Bay here...Roberts and Bedard in other places) saying that 30 year old players could be 8 year fixtures for the O's. Some poster in this thread or another pointed out the longevity of players like Clemens and Maddux, etc...

We realize that the average MLB career is something like 4 years, right? Players that play for 10-15 (or even more) years in MLB are the exception, right?

Elliot