A few things

[RShack]

I'm having a hard time understanding why anyone who would like to see Roberts, Tejada, and/or Bedard traded away based on the principle that the O's won't be contending within the 2-year window before those guys reach free agency would want to trade away some of the O's own young players for Jason Bay, considering Bay is squarely in the same category as Roberts, Tejada, and Bedard.

I agree.

Whether any of these guys have a place on the O's is largely dependent on what kind of time frame you see as the necessary phase of rebuilding suckitude. Since I think that 2009 might be a decent year (or not, depending on what we find out about several guys in 2008), I think it's premature to be moving all of them, and it's viable to look at Bay. However, I realize that most of the blow-it-up folks seem to think that rebuilding requires a way longer period of being lousy than I think it necessarily does.

[clapdiddy]

I agree.

Whether any of these guys have a place on the O's is largely dependent on what kind of time frame you see as the necessary phase of rebuilding suckitude. Since I think that 2009 might be a decent year (or not, depending on what we find out about several guys in 2008), I think it's premature to be moving all of them, and it's viable to look at Bay. However, I realize that most of the blow-it-up folks seem to think that rebuilding requires a way longer period of being lousy than I think it necessarily does.

I feel that if we are able to deal Tejada and Mora, it could speed up the rebuilding process. If we are able to trade Tejada for a CF with potential (obviously I'm thinking of Pie or someone of that ilk), trade some minor leaguers for Bay, then sign Tex for 2009, then your turnaround could come quickly.

A lineup in 2009 built around Tex, Roberts, Markakis, Bay, and possibly Wieters would be mighty impressive.

[Mackus]

I feel that if we are able to deal Tejada and Mora, it could speed up the rebuilding process. If we are able to trade Tejada for a CF with potential (obviously I'm thinking of Pie or someone of that ilk), trade some minor leaguers for Bay, then sign Tex for 2009, then your turnaround could come quickly.

A lineup in 2009 built around Tex, Roberts, Markakis, Bay, and possibly Wieters would be mighty impressive.

I agree, it'll be more expensive but I do think we could build a winner around that core. Signing Bay and Bedard might prevent a Tex contract though, that'd be 3 $15M+ players.

[S'GOS]

But they aren't the same scenarios. Bay is not an aging former All Star. He will be 29 years old next year and IS an All-Star. He's younger than Brian Roberts (and better, as well). He's a better player than anybody you named when we acquired them (and younger as well) except for Belle.

Trading for Bay isn't neccesarily out of line with a "go younger" approach. It can be that fabled situation of both buying and selling in an attempt to build up the system while also remainig competitive.

By the time we are competitive, Bay will be an aging former all star. The talent we need to give away will not be helpful in our "go younger" approach. If we work a 3 way deal to aquire the best package of prospects then it may be worth it. But a straight deal to get Bay and keep him on the roster would be confusing

[Mackus]

By the time we are competitive' date=' Bay will be an aging former all star. The talent we need to give away will not be helpful in our "go younger" approach. If we work a 3 way deal to aquire the best package of prospects then it may be worth it. But a straight deal to get Bay and keep him on the roster would be confusing[/quote']I think with bay added and a few other solid moves, we could be competitive in 2009 and a true contender in 2010 for sure. I don't think Bay will be washed up at 31.

[O no]

So part of our rebuilding plan is acting like stock traders and buying Bay low and selling him high? Hello rock bottom is that you?

[clapdiddy]

I agree, it'll be more expensive but I do think we could build a winner around that core. Signing Bay and Bedard might prevent a Tex contract though, that'd be 3 $15M+ players.

I think PA would do it. He'd almost have to do it if the opportunity presents itself, as the Nats could be looking pretty good by then, especially with the new stadium opening up.

[Mackus]

I think PA would do it. He'd almost have to do it if the opportunity presents itself, as the Nats could be looking pretty good by then, especially with the new stadium opening up.

I agree, I think we can afford a $110-120M payroll, so putting a ton of money into 4-5 guys isn't a major problem, especially if we're getting good production from some cheap players like Guthrie, Olson, Moore, Wieters, and any other young bucks who are on the squad by then.

A lineup of Roberts - ??? - Markakis - Teixeira - Bay - Wieters has me absolutely salivating though. God that would be awesome. If you can get Pie for Tejada and he develops, look out.

[CrimsonTribe]

So part of our rebuilding plan is acting like stock traders and buying Bay low and selling him high? Hello rock bottom is that you?

If part of rock bottom is being smart and exploiting another team's poor valuation, then count me in.

[Sports Guy]

I'm not really stoked about committing a bunch of money to them, especially since we're not going to be able to compete for a few more years. Like I said before, I think we trade for Bay if we feel like the Pirates are undervaluing him and we think we could get more for him later. I don't think it's a good idea to trade for him and extend him when he's not going to put us over the top and will be 32-33 when we're finally going to compete.

Agree 100%.

I only want to go after Bay if he is cheap and we can get him for a bargain.

If we can't, the idea of acquiring him shouldn't even be a thought.

[Mackus]

I'm not really stoked about committing a bunch of money to them, especially since we're not going to be able to compete for a few more years. Like I said before, I think we trade for Bay if we feel like the Pirates are undervaluing him and we think we could get more for him later. I don't think it's a good idea to trade for him and extend him when he's not going to put us over the top and will be 32-33 when we're finally going to compete.

Bay will be 29 all of next year, so unless we aren't going to compete for 4-5 years, then he'll be younger than that. I think that if we add Bay and things break right, we can be competing in 2009 and 2010 for sure, making Bay 30-31.

[Dipper9]

Wow some good stuff in here. Thanks alot BB. Good to see your guy is still employed. Keep it coming. Im hearing the O's are working on an offer for Bedard. We shall see....

Just out of curiosity, and no offense to you or your source, but just how long does it take to "work up an offer?" I mean, can't MacPhail and some top front office guys set a meeting, discuss what they want to offer, put it in writing, and fax it to Bedard's agent? I know there is legal mumbo jumbo and all, but it shouldn't take long to "work on an offer." You make the offer and sit back and wait for him to decline. Simple as that!

[66-70-83-??]

I agree, I think we can afford a $110-120M payroll, so putting a ton of money into 4-5 guys isn't a major problem, especially if we're getting good production from some cheap players like Guthrie, Olson, Moore, Wieters, and any other young bucks who are on the squad by then.

A lineup of Roberts - ??? - Markakis - Teixeira - Bay - Wieters has me absolutely salivating though. God that would be awesome. If you can get Pie for Tejada and he develops, look out.

Wow.

Back to being "big spenders" in the AL East. Back to fantasyland- acquiring the Konerko's and Vlad's, errrrrr I mean the Bay's and Teix's of the world.

How quickly the thought of rebuilding goes out the window. It only took from end of season to mid-Nov.

[clapdiddy]

I agree, I think we can afford a $110-120M payroll, so putting a ton of money into 4-5 guys isn't a major problem, especially if we're getting good production from some cheap players like Guthrie, Olson, Moore, Wieters, and any other young bucks who are on the squad by then.

A lineup of Roberts - ??? - Markakis - Teixeira - Bay - Wieters has me absolutely salivating though. God that would be awesome. If you can get Pie for Tejada and he develops, look out.

Yeah...I could actually see our payroll going a little above that if necessary. By then, MASN money should have really kicked in.

I agree with what you are saying about that lineup. If you've got Moore, Pie, and a young SS in the mix with low salaries, you may even look to let Roberts walk after 2009 and getting a young second baseman, if we don't have one ready.

We need to be smart about holding onto guys too long. Roberts could very well still be productive after 2009, so I wouldn't object to them signing him long term provided that it doesn't break the bank.

[Mackus]

Wow.

Back to being "big spenders" in the AL East. Back to fantasyland- acquiring the Konerko's and Vlad's, errrrrr I mean the Bay's and Teix's of the world.

How quickly the thought of rebuilding goes out the window. It only took from end of season to mid-Nov.

I certainly still think rebuilding is a very smart choice, but if you can add a talent like Bay without mortgaging the future (and moving Cabrera, Liz, and Reimold wouldn't kill us if we add other talent in other trades) then its a good move and can speed up the rebuilding process. Instead of just trading everybody, you can try and build around some of the slightly older pieces like Bedard and Roberts but still have avery solid young core coming up in Wieters, Rowell, and Snyder to join Markakis, Moore, and anybody we acquire.