A few things

[TyCobb]

But the Pittsburgh GM will trade Bay for him.

I am not willing to buy the assumption that Reimold and DCab = Bay.

Reimold's value isn't sky high right now either. He isn't coming off a monster season.

If that is the best offer for Bay- it makes me wonder what we are missing. Surely a contender will offer up a higher quality prospect.

What if it is Reimold and Loewen ? Do you still make the trade ?

A trade for Bay could continue the spinning of our wheels. Maybe he wants to hit FA and play in Toronto or Boston.

Do you insist on a contract extension ? Or are you concerned enough with the level of his dropoff to wait and see what kind of year he has in 08 ?

I won't trade Loewen for Bay.

I won't insist on a contract extension. I would be happy enough with him leaving and getting 2 draft picks for him. I won't mind trading him at the trade deadline if he increases in value.

[Birds08]

I'm having a hard time understanding why anyone who would like to see Roberts, Tejada, and/or Bedard traded away based on the principle that the O's won't be contending within the 2-year window before those guys reach free agency would want to trade away some of the O's own young players for Jason Bay, considering Bay is squarely in the same category as Roberts, Tejada, and Bedard.

I'm with you 90%. However, if Bay could really be had on the cheap, then you have to look at it. However, if we'd have to give up a remotely big package, I'm against it.

[Moose Milligan]

I'm having a hard time understanding why anyone who would like to see Roberts, Tejada, and/or Bedard traded away based on the principle that the O's won't be contending within the 2-year window before those guys reach free agency would want to trade away some of the O's own young players for Jason Bay, considering Bay is squarely in the same category as Roberts, Tejada, and Bedard.

Thats quite a big run on sentence...

But I don't get it, either.

I guess people think the O's can flip Bay at the deadline for a prospect or two.

davearm, you've been around long enough to know that Bay, for some reason, has been a board favorite. I'm not sure what the draw is, really...especially since he's in the same category like you pointed out.

[Elbren]

What if it is Reimold and Loewen ? Do you still make the trade ?

Obviously not. Loewen has much more value, both to this team and in trade, than Cabrera.

A trade for Bay could continue the spinning of our wheels. Maybe he wants to hit FA and play in Toronto or Boston.

Again, you're not listening. Either he gets traded before he hits FA or you let him become a FA and take the draft picks when someone else signs him. Either way, you get multiple players of probably equal value to Reimold.

Do you insist on a contract extension ?

The only way we should offer a contract extension is if we become competitive within the 2 years he has left before FA or it looks like you're close to competing.

If not, again ... trade him or let him walk and take the picks.

Or are you concerned enough with the level of his dropoff to wait and see what kind of year he has in 08 ?

He's 29, had an injury, was coming off surgery and this was the first time he's had a season like this. No, I'm not concerned.

[Avsfan]

People here want their cake, and they want to eat it too. It just can't be that way...

One of the few times I actually agree with Dave....

[davearm]

Thats quite a big run on sentence...

But I don't get it, either.

I guess people think the O's can flip Bay at the deadline for a prospect or two.

davearm, you've been around long enough to know that Bay, for some reason, has been a board favorite. I'm not sure what the draw is, really...especially since he's in the same category like you pointed out.

Bay's an elite hitter. People tend to toss around the 900 OPS threshold like it's the mark of a good hitter. It's the mark of a terrific hitter. Every year there are many guys that hit that mark, but very few do it year after year (or even most years). Bay is one guy who has.

It's not difficult to see what the draw is.

What's incongruent is to be in favor of acquiring him, and also in favor of trading away the guys you've already got that are like him in age and contract status.

You can throw around the term "buying and selling", but I'd call that running around in circles.

[Moose Milligan]

Bay's an elite hitter. People tend to toss around the 900 OPS threshold like it's the mark of a good hitter. It's the mark of a terrific hitter. Every year there are many guys that hit that mark, but very few do it year after year (or even most years). Bay is one guy who has.

It's not difficult to see what the draw is.

What's incongruent is to be in favor of acquiring him, and also in favor of trading away the guys you've already got that are like him in age and contract status.

You can throw around the term "buying and selling", but I'd call that running around in circles.

Yeah, you're right about Bay...being up in Pittsburgh works against him. I knew he was good, but I didn't know he was in the 900 ops range. Had a bad year in 2007 but theres no reason why he can't rebound.

But acquiring him doesn't make sense for us if we're truly committed to going the prospect route. Bay would be good for us if we were a player or two away from contending...but we're clearly not there.

I agree a lot with your last sentence, too.

[Sports Guy]

The only reason I would be interested in Bay is if he can be had for less than you would think.

I have no problems trading for him if his value is to the point where DCab is the best player going back for him.

I am not even saying that is possible...Just saying that if it is, that i think it is a trade you have to make because if he gets it back together, he will end up being worth more in a trade than what you actually traded for him.

Let me further this example.....

Let's say that DCab and Liz net you Bay.....Now, let's say that in the first half this year, Bay's OPS is over 900, he has 15 homers and has driven in a ton of runs.

The Dodgers, still looking for hitting, offer you LaRoche and Kershaw for him.

This is a scenario I could see happening.

[caljr]

I think the front office is looking at bringing in Bay because they realize that if they go through with the rebuild this offseason that they are going to need to have someone who can replace some of the offense that will be lost after trading away the likes of Tejada/Roberts/Millar. I think they are thinking of bringing in Bay so that we don't completely suck next year (ie. 100 losses.) I don't think he is part of their future plan, but instead an attempt at keeping the average fair weather fan interested in the team until the prospects they get from trades and through the draft are ready to make us a contender again.

[TyCobb]

The only reason I would be interested in Bay is if he can be had for less than you would think.

I have no problems trading for him if his value is to the point where DCab is the best player going back for him.

I am not even saying that is possible...Just saying that if it is, that i think it is a trade you have to make because if he gets it back together, he will end up being worth more in a trade than what you actually traded for him.

Let me further this example.....

Let's say that DCab and Liz net you Bay.....Now, let's say that in the first half this year, Bay's OPS is over 900, he has 15 homers and has driven in a ton of runs.

The Dodgers, still looking for hitting, offer you LaRoche and Kershaw for him.

This is a scenario I could see happening.

I completely agree.

[El Gordo]

Yeah, you're right about Bay...being up in Pittsburgh works against him. I knew he was good, but I didn't know he was in the 900 ops range. Had a bad year in 2007 but theres no reason why he can't rebound.

But acquiring him doesn't make sense for us if we're truly committed to going the prospect route. Bay would be good for us if we were a player or two away from contending...but we're clearly not there.

I agree a lot with your last sentence, too.

Does aquiring Bay preclude trading Bedard, Miggi, Ramon, and BRob for younger players? Why is it all one or the other. Are DCab and Reimold the future of the O's?

[Moose Milligan]

The only reason I would be interested in Bay is if he can be had for less than you would think.

I have no problems trading for him if his value is to the point where DCab is the best player going back for him.

I am not even saying that is possible...Just saying that if it is, that i think it is a trade you have to make because if he gets it back together, he will end up being worth more in a trade than what you actually traded for him.

Let me further this example.....

Let's say that DCab and Liz net you Bay.....Now, let's say that in the first half this year, Bay's OPS is over 900, he has 15 homers and has driven in a ton of runs.

The Dodgers, still looking for hitting, offer you LaRoche and Kershaw for him.

This is a scenario I could see happening.

That makes more sense. However if LaRoche and Kershaw are contributing significantly to the Dodgers in 08, they might not be so willing to trade them, if at all.

That's not to say there wouldn't be another taker for Bay.

[66-70-83-??]

I think the front office is looking at bringing in Bay because they realize that if they go through with the rebuild this offseason that they are going to need to have someone who can replace some of the offense that will be lost after trading away the likes of Tejada/Roberts/Millar. I think they are thinking of bringing in Bay so that we don't completely suck next year (ie. 100 losses.) I don't think he is part of their future plan, but instead an attempt at keeping the average fair weather fan interested in the team until the prospects they get from trades and through the draft are ready to make us a contender again.

I don't buy that at all. Even if that were the case, then why not just sign a "name" free agent ?

Why give up prospects/trading chips up for a guy that supposed to keep fair weather fans interested ?

And why go after an obscure Canadian player who has been playing in Pittsburgh if the goal is a name player to keep fair weather fans interested ?

[Why Not?]

I'm having a hard time understanding why anyone who would like to see Roberts, Tejada, and/or Bedard traded away based on the principle that the O's won't be contending within the 2-year window before those guys reach free agency would want to trade away some of the O's own young players for Jason Bay, considering Bay is squarely in the same category as Roberts, Tejada, and Bedard.

Bay hasn't been part of Baltimore's failed equation, the culture of losing here. Obviously, we need to get better on a lot of fronts but we also need to get, ummm, different. Sometimes it helps to open the windows and let some fresh new air in the place.

[caljr]

I don't buy that at all. Even if that were the case, then why not just sign a "name" free agent ?

Why give up prospects/trading chips up for a guy that supposed to keep fair weather fans interested ?

And why go after an obscure Canadian player who has been playing in Pittsburgh if the goal is a name player to keep fair weather fans interested ?

I think that the front office is against going after the "name" free agent because they realize he will be a long term investment that will be signed past his prime and they do not want to give up draft picks for him. I don't believe that they will trade away any prospects in our system that they feel are crucial to our future sucess. As for fans being interested in a name free agent... I really don't buy that. I think fans are interested in immediate results. I think even the fair weather fan would be more into Jason Bay coming in here and putting up a .900 ops than watching an aging Andrew Jones come in here and strike out 140 times a year.