So, I guess Buck's honeymoon is over?

[El Gordo]

The one most will point to is his steadfast refusal to move some of the stuggling guys down or out of the order (or when he did it was later than most would have liked).

But Frobby pointed out this is a message board cliche. Few if any managers would be quick to move proven vets any sooner than Buck has. I think people don't understand how limited a manager is in what he can do. The players have a hierarchy and can simply refuse to listen to him if they don't approve of the way he deals with vets they look up to, like Vlad and Lee. This is apart from the fact that guys with their track records deserve a longer leash when your other options are Felix Pie and Nolan Reimold.

[Remember The Alomar]

What else could he possibly do? Every facet of this team is a disappointment one way or the other sans Hardy and to some extent Jones.

[NewMarketSean]

I disagree with almost everything you say. I think the cumulative effect of all the issues you identify here on the W-L record are negligible. I think, in 9 years on the Hangout, I have observed that all managers are more patient with veteran players, and slower to either cut their playing time or change their role, than many posters are. I have zero problem with Buck sticking with his original lineup, for the most part, to this point in the season. (He did move Lee down in the order a few spots and moved Jones and Wieters up.) I'd prefer Koji over Gregg as the closer, but think that issue is highly overrated since they both pitch an inning (in Koji's case, sometimes 2) in just about every close game we are winning and it really doesn't matter whether a run is yielded in the 8th vs. the 9th, or vice-versa. I don't think Buck has any good options at 2B, and that's not his fault; he was fortunate last year that BRob returned just a few days before he started as the manager, and he'd be looking better now if BRob were playing.

Like I said, it's all about the starting pitching. The team is scoring just as many runs now as it did during Buck's tenure last year, maybe even a few more relative to the rest of the league. But the starting pitching hasn't been there -- the starters' ERA is about a run higher, and they are pitching substantially fewer innings compared to what they were doing last August/September. When the starting pitching is good, managers look good.

Sorry Frobby. Vlad needs to stop playing every day. Reimold needs more AB's. The mental lapses need to be addressed by benching players, veteran or not. A brain fart is a brain fart.

Buck is not managing the same way he was last year. The record is irrelevant. Last year he knew he was in a rebuilding year and was looking for nuggets. This year for some reason he's acting as if this team should be a lot better than it is.

I was also thinking about what the Buck hire and the record he had last year means for the future of the team. Are they still rebuilding? Are they going for contention? What are we doing in 2011? Building for 2012? Or still trying to win something in 2011?

With Buck here I think the Orioles are back to "we need to do something, we just don't know what" mode like it was for much of the time under Flanagan.

[Tony-OH]

Team sucks, Moses couldn't lead them to a victory.

Yeah, but Moses can't control his clubhouse. I mean, his "team" built a false idol after he left them unsupervised for way too long. Yeah, he was able to guide his squad in the middle of the season well and was able to keep away the charging Egyptians, but in the end, he's not the kind of leader we need here. Besides, his bullpen management was terrible.

[DrungoHazewood]

The one most will point to is his steadfast refusal to move some of the stuggling guys down or out of the order (or when he did it was later than most would have liked).

And the impact of that is almost too small to measure. If he'd batted Vlad and Lee and Nick 7-8-9 from April 1st-on (a ridiculous proposition for any manager) the O's probably would have scored five more runs than they actually have. Who would he have replaced the struggling players with? Should he have benched Reynolds when he was hitting .160 instead of letting him work his way into a hot streak?

[BaltimoreTerp]

In my mind it all goes back to those idiotic commercials. If you are going to tell fans outright, either as your own opinion or as the team telling writers to write what they want him to say, things like "I don't believe in the save rule" you better as hell be willing to show it on the field. It makes everyone involved look disingenuous at best, like liars at worst.

Either way, it kills the trust between the manager and the fans and opens up entire new avenues of criticism when things start to go downhill.

[DrungoHazewood]

The mental lapses need to be addressed by benching players, veteran or not. A brain fart is a brain fart.

Who's the last Major League manager you've seen bench good players for mental lapses? It rarely happens unless it's a huge deal, a recurring thing with a guy with an ongoing attitude problem.

[BaltimoreTerp]

Yeah, but Moses can't control his clubhouse. I mean, his "team" built a false idol after he left them unsupervised for way too long. Yeah, he was able to guide his squad in the middle of the season well and was able to keep away the charging Egyptians, but in the end, he's not the kind of leader we need here. Besides, his bullpen management was terrible.

Don't forget how the Most General of all Managers fired him late in the season, and another leader took his team to the Promised Land.

[CA-ORIOLE]

I basically agree with the OP. Except for showing Vladdy the bench and guys not learning to bunt in ST I don't have too many complaints about Buck this year. It is what it is. He got too much credit last year when it was primarily the SP (not Buck's doing imo) coming through for us. I definitely agree about the Kranitz comment. I liked the guy.

[Dr. FLK]

Every season, "we" complain that we don't use the bench enough. Every year, "we" claim the manager doesn't do this well, or do that well, or blah blah blah. Every year, "we" say that guys aren't given a chance to earn a spot - acting like they can only earn a spot at the ML level.

What did Nolan do to earn an every day spot when he hit 240 in AAA? Or when his AAA manager revealed he doesn't like working at parts of his game that are weak? What exactly did Davis do to show he deserves regular PT at the ML level?

Over and over again, we blame everything except lack of organizational depth. The reason guys don't come up and play a lot is because the guys that come up just aren't very good. It's not like we call up Eric Hosmer and refuse to play him. We call up mediocre, fringe players and we treat them as such.

[El Gordo]

Don't forget how the Most General of all Managers fired him late in the season, and another leader took his team to the Promised Land.

Yes but that's a good ways off. Buck hasn't even parted the Red Sea yet.

[BaltimoreTerp]

Yes but that's a good ways off. Buck hasn't even parted the Red Sea yet.

We did win two of three from Cincinnati...

[El Gordo]

We did win two of three from Cincinnati...

:wedge::smile11:

[NewMarketSean]

Over and over again, we blame everything except lack of organizational depth. The reason guys don't come up and play a lot is because the guys that come up just aren't very good. It's not like we call up Eric Hosmer and refuse to play him. We call up mediocre, fringe players and we treat them as such.

Reimold is better than a fringe player. He has good OBP and power. If Vlad wasn't here he'd probably be playing everyday.

[Frobby]

Buck is not managing the same way he was last year.

I see very little that he is doing differently this year compared to last year. I must have missed all those times last year that he benched some player over a brain fart. If you can specify the times when that happened, I'm all ears.