O's scouting LHP Chen Wei-Yin and SS Hiroyuki Nakajima; D.Stockstill returning?

[Lucky Jim]

The question I would have is this. Who made the decision to retain these guys, when was it made, and should it have been left to the new GM to decide. Joe Jordan was let out of his contract early. I assume these guys would have been under contract through December as well, although I could be wrong. Why not let the new GM decide if he wants them around for 2012? Your idea about wholesale cleaning might be correct but I don't want Peter Angelos making that decision. I want the new GM to make it.

He will. Next year. In the meantime, we have some continuity, we have a full staff, and we work on filling the GM role.

Honestly, does anyone here know how long it would take to fully staff a scouting department? Stotle? We all acknowledge that the situation isn't ideal (not sure why we think PA made the decision though). But is the ideal even feasible?

(I readily admit I could be wrong on this, it just occurred to me as a possible issue.)

[Sports Guy]

The question I would have is this. Who made the decision to retain these guys, when was it made, and should it have been left to the new GM to decide. Joe Jordan was let out of his contract early. I assume these guys would have been under contract through December as well, although I could be wrong. Why not let the new GM decide if he wants them around for 2012? Your idea about wholesale cleaning might be correct but I don't want Peter Angelos making that decision. I want the new GM to make it.

Right..For example, John Stockstill's contract expired on Dec 31, 2011...Why re-sign him before the new GM takes over?

And anyone who thinks that they will either get re-assigned and/or not have the ear of PA is one incredibly foolish and naive person.

You are already having your new GM coming into here having to watch his back and make sure he isn't being underminded in some way.

How is that supposed to be a good thing?

[mweb]

He will. Next year. In the meantime, we have some continuity, we have a full staff, and we work on filling the GM role.

Honestly, does anyone here know how long it would take to fully staff a scouting department? Stotle?

(I readily admit I could be wrong on this, it just occurred to me as a possible issue.)

Not me, but I would think it would be extremely difficult to do it well in one off-season starting in late October.

[Sports Guy]

My guess is that they're one year contracts, and that a wholesale overhaul wouldn't be feasible given the need to get going. I mean, if we fired everyone, how long would it take to get folks hired? Why not keep them in the system for one year and then move on under the guidance of the new boss?

You don't think a new GM has guys that he knows that he could promote and work under him?

[Lucky Jim]

You don't think a new GM has guys that he knows that he could promote and work under him?

A full staff? Don't know. I don't even know who's not under contract right now.

[Sports Guy]

He will. Next year. In the meantime, we have some continuity, we have a full staff, and we work on filling the GM role.

Honestly, does anyone here know how long it would take to fully staff a scouting department? Stotle? We all acknowledge that the situation isn't ideal (not sure why we think PA made the decision though). But is the ideal even feasible?

(I readily admit I could be wrong on this, it just occurred to me as a possible issue.)

Is that a good thing if the only consistent thing about those who are in those positions is that they are not producing the results we need them to produce?

[Lucky Jim]

These guys were under contract through the end of the year. We have continuity. Let the new GM decide if he wants the continuity to run into 2012. There were always rumors that Stockstill's job was safe because of PA. That should not be the case. The point isn't about continuity. It's about who's making the decisions.

I don't like the crony-ism, either. Don't understand it. (Remember, I was the first to note the D. Stockstill part of the article.)

[Sports Guy]

These guys were under contract through the end of the year. We have continuity. Let the new GM decide if he wants the continuity to run into 2012. There were always rumors that Stockstill's job was safe because of PA. That should not be the case. The point isn't about continuity. It's about who's making the decisions.

Someone gets it.

You are bringing in a new GM and all we know thus far is that Buck is the one who really has the power and the Angelos boys are still protected.

Someone explain to me how that is a good decision.

[Lucky Jim]

Someone gets it.

You are bringing in a new GM and all we know thus far is that Buck is the one who really has the power and the Angelos boys are still protected.

Someone explain to me how that is a good decision.

Yes. Only RZ gets your point. It's like Bohr and Heisenberg meeting in Copenhagen.

[mweb]

You don't think a new GM has guys that he knows that he could promote and work under him?

I think he would have a few people in mind that he could realistically bring with him. But I don't think he would likely be able to adequately fill every single position from assistants down to scouts. And if that were his task, I would think it would distract him from learning about the team, formulating a plan, and making player moves. That's a lot to put on the plate of a first time GM who is new to an organization.

[BaltimoreTerp]

Of course, especially if the guy you are bringing on is as good a candidate as some of the people being talked about.

This entire organization needs to be changed.

Now, Drungo brings up a good point about sometimes needing to be happy with incremental progress...perhaps that's right, which is why I am ok with keeping some of the scouts around...HOWEVER, I am not happy keeping around ANYONE who has clearly been kept around because they are an "Angelos boy".

Under no circumstances am I in agreement with that...I would say Buck would be my exception although I would give the new GM the power to get rid of Buck if he wanted to.

If you were in charge of the task force on The Wire, the show would have been half of a season and called The Low-Level Drug Dealers We Caught

[LookinUp]

I'm glad SG took up the cause while I was away from this thread. I'm also surprised that Frobby, LJ and Drungo are giving PA the benefit of the doubt here, and in one case are postulating that I think 100% turnover in one offseason is possible.

I specifically pointed to the Stockstills only. I specifically mentioned before hiring a new GM. That's all I was talking about and it is bothersome to me that they are somehow guaranteed to be back next year. Now I'm left to hope that the new GM has some autonomy, whereas pushing a decision like this a couple of weeks would have sent a totally different signal.

[LookinUp]

I think he would have a few people in mind that he could realistically bring with him. But I don't think he would likely be able to adequately fill every single position from assistants down to scouts. And if that were his task, I would think it would distract him from learning about the team, formulating a plan, and making player moves. That's a lot to put on the plate of a first time GM who is new to an organization.

Where was someone stating this?

[Sports Guy]

I think he would have a few people in mind that he could realistically bring with him. But I don't think he would likely be able to adequately fill every single position from assistants down to scouts. And if that were his task, I would think it would distract him from learning about the team, formulating a plan, and making player moves. That's a lot to put on the plate of a first time GM who is new to an organization.

The new GM isn't really going to be allowed to do those things anyway.

In fact, if they bring in a guy like Dipoto, Levine or LaCava, I would argue that their #1 job would be doing exactly what you said.

And even if they wanted to keep some or all of what is left here, it should be THEIR decision, not a decision that is made for them.

[Lucky Jim]

Would it be nice if the O's completely cleaned house, divested themselves of all Angelos' buddies, and went about hiring 150 new high-profile, fully vetted scouts all with a seal of approval from the new GM who was hired on October 5th? Sure, that would be great.

But back in reality sometimes you have to take incremental progress. The O's are scouting multiple Japanese players and are have had some qualified success in other international markets. It's not going to win the World Series, but it's better than a hole in the head.

Of course, especially if the guy you are bringing on is as good a candidate as some of the people being talked about.

This entire organization needs to be changed.

Now, Drungo brings up a good point about sometimes needing to be happy with incremental progress...perhaps that's right, which is why I am ok with keeping some of the scouts around...HOWEVER, I am not happy keeping around ANYONE who has clearly been kept around because they are an "Angelos boy".

Under no circumstances am I in agreement with that...I would say Buck would be my exception although I would give the new GM the power to get rid of Buck if he wanted to.

I'm glad SG took up the cause while I was away from this thread. I'm also surprised that Frobby, LJ and Drungo are giving PA the benefit of the doubt here, and in one case are postulating that I think 100% turnover in one offseason is possible.

I specifically pointed to the Stockstills only. I specifically mentioned before hiring a new GM. That's all I was talking about and it is bothersome to me that they are somehow guaranteed to be back next year. Now I'm left to hope that the new GM has some autonomy, whereas pushing a decision like this a couple of weeks would have sent a totally different signal.

Where was someone stating this?

It's a hypothetical. I don't think anyone was discussing your posts in particular.

I'm not giving PA the benefit of the doubt. But if this is something that happens in most organizations - because it's practical, and doesn't make a huge difference - then I don't think it's a big deal. I honestly don't know, however. My guess is that no one else really knows either. I certainly haven't seen any examples, just a lot of conjecture.