Schoop and Machado

[Tony-OH]

So a common theme seems to be that these guys were promoted too quickly. Why were they? Didn't Duquette say early on that he didn't think guys should be promoted too fast? Or was he just talking about moving guys to the majors too quickly?

Are these types of quick advances part of the minor league problem many posters have mentioned in the past - the fact that the O's can't develop players?

I don't believe the aggressive promotions are hurting the development of either player. These guys are learning how to hit more advanced pitching at earlier age, and as long as they don't start to doubt their abilities, this should pay dividends down the road. The aggressive promotions have really only been over the last few season so you can't point to that as a possible problem with the lack of development of players. Remember, Duquette has only brought in his first round of guys into the player development system. With an entire off season to work with after this season I expect even more changes.

[ThisIsOurHouse]

Since Schoop and Machado are in double A I would like to see them be sent Arizona Fall League. The extra at bats would really help their development in my opinion.

[Slappy]

I don't see how you can't be worried about Machado unless he's hurt or something. I know he's 19 but I don't think you can find too many "can't miss" type prospects who have struggled like this anywhere in the minors. I think he'll still probably develop into a good player at some point but if the Orioles are still in this thing at the trade deadline and need a piece I don't think trading Machado should be out of the question.

I actually don't disagree with this sentiment, but it would have to be a deal that helps our major league club immediately, significantly, and for more than just 3 months.

[Frobby]

Machado hasn't played the last two days. Injury?

[scarey1999]

Schoop and Manny both with HR's today. Manny 3-4 with 4 RBI thus far.

Schoop appears to be driving the ball with more authority of late with a couple of dingers and 3 doubles in the last 5 games.

[Frobby]

Schoop and Manny both with HR's today. Manny 3-4 with 4 RBI thus far.

Schoop appears to be driving the ball with more authority of late with a couple of dingers and 3 doubles in the last 5 games.

Schoop has been progressing each month after a very slow start. His OPS for June was .762 before today's game. It's good to see he is beginning to get his head above water in AA.

[RVAbird]

Machado will be fine. I've thought from the start that his development path would not be as swift or linear as many seemed to anticipate.

Schoop has more weaknesses and inconsistencies in his game than does Machado, but I'm pleased with some of the adjustments he's made thus far. I'm looking forward to watching them play in the second half.

[waroriole]

Machado will be fine. I've thought from the start that his development path would not be as swift or linear as many seemed to anticipate.

Schoop has more weaknesses and inconsistencies in his game than does Machado, but I'm pleased with some of the adjustments he's made thus far. I'm looking forward to watching them play in the second half.

I noticed you said you wouldn't trade Schoop and Tillman for Headley. Do you think Schoop it's likely that Schoop ends up being a more valuable player than Headley?

[RVAbird]

I noticed you said you wouldn't trade Schoop and Tillman for Headley. Do you think Schoop it's likely that Schoop ends up being a more valuable player than Headley?

That was a very tough poll for me. The fact that I was so torn on it probably means it's fair value. But, to answer your quesiton, I think it's very possible, but not particularly likely, that Schoop ends up a more valuable player than Headley. I think it's very possible that 6 cost-controlled years of Schoop ends up carrying more surplus value than Headley's final two arbitrated years. Obviously Headley is the safer bet for year-to-year production.

I think two things that skewed me toward declining the deal were that 1) I am probably a stronger believer in Tillman than most (maybe this is me being stubborn) and 2) I don't think the 2012 Orioles are nearly as strong a club as their record might suggest and am also skeptical of their chances of being competitive in the next 2 years. Therefore, I'd skew long-term and hold on to the younger pieces.

[Lucky Jim]

That was a very tough poll for me. The fact that I was so torn on it probably means it's fair value. But, to answer your quesiton, I think it's very possible, but not particularly likely, that Schoop ends up a more valuable player than Headley. I think it's very possible that 6 cost-controlled years of Schoop ends up carrying more surplus value than Headley's final two arbitrated years. Obviously Headley is the safer bet for year-to-year production.

I think two things that skewed me toward declining the deal were that 1) I am probably a stronger believer in Tillman than most (maybe this is me being stubborn) and 2) I don't think the 2012 Orioles are nearly as strong a club as their record might suggest and am also skeptical of their chances of being competitive in the next 2 years. Therefore, I'd skew long-term and hold on to the younger pieces.

I voted yes, but it was a squeaker. I just think there's solid now-value w/ Headley with more upside than usual (due to Petco). I think there's still somewhat substantial "miss" possibility w/ Schoop, and his value is deferred long enough that it makes it (barely) worth it.

[waroriole]

I think two things that skewed me toward declining the deal were that 1) I am probably a stronger believer in Tillman than most (maybe this is me being stubborn) and 2) I don't think the 2012 Orioles are nearly as strong a club as their record might suggest and am also skeptical of their chances of being competitive in the next 2 years. Therefore, I'd skew long-term and hold on to the younger pieces.

That's reason enough then. I guess I'm looking at this from a viewpoint that we have a window here with Jones, Wieters, Hardy etc. and can try to take advantage of it. It would be tough giving up the only top position prospect besides Machado. If we went full tilt on the IFA signing period (maybe get 4-5 guys who could be in our Top 20) would that change your mind? So, our farm is replenished from losing Schoop, plus we have that chance to compete now.

[RVAbird]

That's reason enough then. I guess I'm looking at this from a viewpoint that we have a window here with Jones, Wieters, Hardy etc. and can try to take advantage of it. It would be tough giving up the only top position prospect besides Machado. If we went full tilt on the IFA signing period (maybe get 4-5 guys who could be in our Top 20) would that change your mind? So, our farm is replenished from losing Schoop, plus we have that chance to compete now.

Well, I try to judge trades on their intrinsic value, context considered, without any hypotheticals attached. But I will say I wouldn't cry if that deal was made. I just wouldn't pull the trigger if it were up to me.

[Ampontan]

Not worried so much about either Machado or Schoop at this point.

Machado turns 20 in a couple of weeks and Schoop doesn't turn 21 until the fall. In other words, they're both still too young to buy a beer in the state of Maryland. I read elsewhere that the average age of pitchers in the Eastern League is something like 24.7. Many of them have been through advanced college programs, M and S obviously have not. Further, A+ to AA is supposed to be the biggest jump in the minors. Finally, Schoop had injury problems during spring training.

To expect much better production at this point would be unreasonable, I think. Their stand-alone second half stats should tell us more.

[EagleOriole]

Schoop hit two homers today. That is 6 for the year and both Machado and Schoop are heating up.

[Flash- bd]

Schoop hit two homers today. That is 6 for the year and both Machado and Schoop are heating up.

Indeed. I hope people will relax with the imaginary trade proposals and just enjoy this, now; Machado can be very proud of the first half he's put together at AA as a 19 yr old, and Schoop really isn't much older (9 months) and has been tearing it up in June--and really--if you take out a bad April, he's been pretty damn good. I know there was a lot of talk that Schoop was injured at the beginning of the season, so if you buy that, even more reason to be impressed by his #s.

I have a feeling Schoop is a better prospect than a lot of people think. He's the kind of guy that will get undervalued because of his low-profile, the fact he's just a bit older and just a bit less talented than Machado, and the fact he was signed out of Curacao rather than picked 3rd overall in the draft.