2013 HOF Ballot: Who Gets Your Vote?

[Rene88]

http://www.nypost.com/p/blogs/baseballinsider/my_hall_of_fame_ballot_rC1PsqLR9XhGn3vaUJMYNL#axzz2FezGkbHq

Mine would be:

Bonds (jerk, but would be a HOF regardless)

Clemens (see above)

Biggio (slam dunk)

Palmeiro (one of the best swings I have ever seen, some HR's might have been double's but would have gotten 3K hits regardless IMO)

Piazza

Lee Smith (Bruce Sutter is in the HOF, really?)

I know everyone loves Lofton, Raines, Trammel & Murphy but none of those guys are a slam dunk for me. If I had to pick one-it would be Raines.

[MikeAD]

Bonds and Clemens have to go in. Two of the greatest to wear cleats. Palmeiro deserves it for me, for longevity over his career, he was such a good hitter for so long. However I could see why many would be on the fence with him, even with steroids left out of the discussion. Palmeiro should absolutely be in the Orioles HOF....

Piazza was a great offensive catcher but he could get left out when there are so many greats coming on the ballot.

I will be extremely disappointed if people are left out of the HOF for some HGH malarkey.

[Blizzard1090]

Bonds and Clemens choose to cheat to extend their careers and who knows how long they were using before then? Same with Palmerio.

As for Schilling,the HOF voters are told not to look at the postseason and based on that,his numbers don't justify him getting in.

Biggio and Piazza are no brainers

[skanar]

I have six easy votes:

Curt Schilling (very similar to Mussina, and for me both of them deserve it)

Mike Piazza (easy top-10 all time catcher, maybe top-5)

Jeff Bagwell (otherworldly 8-year peak, career .948 OPS, no steroid evidence)

Alan Trammell (still deserves it; I have him ranked around #8-12 all-time SS)

Tim Raines (2nd greatest leadoff man ever is still pretty good; 85% career SB%)

Kenny Lofton (Similar to Trammell: he's around the #8-12 all-time CF. A better choice than Andre Dawson, for instance)

Then there's the four steroid guys. I'm still on the fence about it, but I'd lean toward yes. That would fill out my 10-man ballot with

Barry Bonds

Roger Clemens

Rafael Palmeiro

Mark McGwire

Sosa doesn't quite do it for me.

I'd vote for Craig Biggio, definitely, if there were more than 10 votes (or if the steroid four get left off), and Larry Walker would also make it. Edgar Martinez would be really close, but I think I'd leave him off. He's a very similar hitter to both Bagwell and Walker in length, peak, and total, one you account for Walker being in Colorado, but both Walker and Bagwell provided some speed and defense as well, and both are solid HOFers, not top-of-the-class, best-ever types.

[Rene88]

Bagwell never linked to steroids??? Say what??????

Edgar Martinez is a one dimensional player to me, not even close in my eyes.

[crissfan172]

Bagwell never linked to steroids??? Say what??????

Edgar Martinez is a one dimensional player to me, not even close in my eyes.

Allow me to present the evidence that suggested Bagwell used steroids:

Well...gee...he looks pretty muscular.

Yeah...that's about it.

As for Martinez being one-dimensional, you could say the same thing about Harmon Killebrew, Willie McCovey, and Willie Stargell.

Only playing one side of the game exceptionally >>>>>>> Playing one side well and another terribly

[Rene88]

Bagwell was on the Mitchell list:

http://forums.jetnation.com/topic/47380-unofficial-mitchell-list-i-receieved/

I don't count that as hearsay, sorry.

[waroriole]

Bonds

Clemens

Bagwell

Raines

Biggio

Piazza

[Moose Milligan]

Bagwell was on the Mitchell list:

http://forums.jetnation.com/topic/47380-unofficial-mitchell-list-i-receieved/

I don't count that as hearsay, sorry.

Your link is titled "Unofficial Mitchell List"

Here's the names listed: Bagwell is not amongst them: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Major_League_Baseball_players_named_in_the_Mitchell_Report

I used to care a lot about the PED guys, now I really don't. Clemens and Bonds were HoF guys before they juiced...I won't get hugely upset if they don't get elected..at the same time, I won't be overjoyed if they do. I'm mainly interested in the spectacle that follows whatever decision is made, the arguments by the voters for and against and whatever other fallout there is.

My list looks like, in no specific order

Biggio

Bagwell

Piazza

I will flip **** if Morris somehow gets in. Unacceptable.

[skanar]

Moose and playbaltimorecom: both of you have Craig Biggio but not Tim Raines. Why is that? I can see an argument to have them both in or both out, but not one or the other (I left off Biggio due to ballot space only). Consider:

Career fWAR: Biggio 70.5, Raines 70.6

Career rWAR: Biggio 62.1, Raines 66.2

Career slash line: Biggio .281/.363/.433, Raines .294/.385/.425

5 year continuous peak rWAR: Biggio 32.0, Raines 31.4

7 year noncontinuous peak rWAR: Biggio 40.6, Raines 41.1

In JAWS (described here), Biggio is the #13 ranked 2B, just a bit behind the average HOF 2B (51.3 vs 54.4). Raines is the #8 ranked LF, a bit ahead of the average HOF LF (53.7 vs 50.7).

Biggio has the magic 3060 hits number and a very high rank in the all-time times on base list (H+BB+HBP); he's #17 with 4505, just behind Frank Robinson and Derek Jeter and just ahead of Honus Wagner and Paul Molitor. Raines is no slouch, though; he's #45 on the list with 3977, just behind Rogers Hornsby, Manny Ramirez, and Cap Anson and just ahead of Tony Gwynn. Plus, Raines has the stolen base argument: he's the 5th all time basestealer with 808, behind only Henderson, Lou Brock, Billy Hamilton, and Ty Cobb, AND Raines has the highest SB% of anyone with a large number of them.

To support Biggio but not Raines, you have to argue either (1) that the WAR positional adjustment isn't enough and Biggio's 2B performance was more valuable than Raines' (better) LF performance or (2) that Biggio's hit or TOB totals are important but Raines' SB totals are not. Also, you have to ignore the fact that owner collusion cost Raines games and playing time, helping keep some of his counting stats down.

In WAR terms, they're similar players. Why one and not the other?

[russ snyder]

I'm going to leave the PED useage out of it. I know a lot of these players will lose votes because of allegations against them. Here are my six:

Bonds

Clemens

E. Martinez

Lee Smith

Palmerio

Biggio

[Spy Fox]

✓Bagwell

✓Biggio

✓Bonds

✓Raines

✓Clemens

✓Martinez

✓McGwire

✓Palmeiro

✓Piazza

✓Schilling

Walker, Sosa, Lofton, and Trammel are ones that I would consider putting in, but if I'm really pretending to be a writer, you can only vote for 10.

I believe steroid-era players should be inducted to the HOF but I support having an asterisk and explanation of asterisk for any players that are proven PED users.

[Can_of_corn]

Bagwell

Biggio

Bonds

Clemens

Martinez

Piazza

Raines

Schilling

Walker

I am hoping that the strength of the new names on the ballot keeps Morris off.

[crissfan172]

I can only vote for 10, so these would be mine.

Bagwell

Biggio

Bonds

Clemens

Martinez

McGwire

Piazza

Raines

Schilling

Walker

I also think Sosa, Palmeiro, and MAYBE McGriff should make it, but there are too many great players on the ballot.

[Moose Milligan]

Moose and playbaltimorecom: both of you have Craig Biggio but not Tim Raines. Why is that? I can see an argument to have them both in or both out, but not one or the other (I left off Biggio due to ballot space only). Consider:

Career fWAR: Biggio 70.5, Raines 70.6

Career rWAR: Biggio 62.1, Raines 66.2

Career slash line: Biggio .281/.363/.433, Raines .294/.385/.425

5 year continuous peak rWAR: Biggio 32.0, Raines 31.4

7 year noncontinuous peak rWAR: Biggio 40.6, Raines 41.1

In JAWS (described here), Biggio is the #13 ranked 2B, just a bit behind the average HOF 2B (51.3 vs 54.4). Raines is the #8 ranked LF, a bit ahead of the average HOF LF (53.7 vs 50.7).

Biggio has the magic 3060 hits number and a very high rank in the all-time times on base list (H+BB+HBP); he's #17 with 4505, just behind Frank Robinson and Derek Jeter and just ahead of Honus Wagner and Paul Molitor. Raines is no slouch, though; he's #45 on the list with 3977, just behind Rogers Hornsby, Manny Ramirez, and Cap Anson and just ahead of Tony Gwynn. Plus, Raines has the stolen base argument: he's the 5th all time basestealer with 808, behind only Henderson, Lou Brock, Billy Hamilton, and Ty Cobb, AND Raines has the highest SB% of anyone with a large number of them.

To support Biggio but not Raines, you have to argue either (1) that the WAR positional adjustment isn't enough and Biggio's 2B performance was more valuable than Raines' (better) LF performance or (2) that Biggio's hit or TOB totals are important but Raines' SB totals are not. Also, you have to ignore the fact that owner collusion cost Raines games and playing time, helping keep some of his counting stats down.

In WAR terms, they're similar players. Why one and not the other?

Yeahhhh, you take this way more seriously than I do. I wouldn't be upset if Raines got in.