Vs. American

[Jagwar]

Recruiting isn't about results. It's about who is brought in.

Those two classes were as disappointing as any that another school could bring up, but they were top classes coming in.

That isn't a failure of recruiting, but of player development.

This is where the disconnect happens in this discussion.

Well then we just view recruiting differently. I always thought it was about bringing in players who fit into the coach's plan for playing good basketball at the school. Who gives a rip what Rivals thinks before they play a minute for the school?

[BaltimoreTerp]

Well then we just view recruiting differently. I always thought it was about bringing in players who fit into the coach's plan for playing good basketball at the school.

And if they don't, it doesn't necessarily mean the recruiting was bad, but that the players don't work out.

[Pedro Cerrano]

BTerp, you're right about Smith and, to a certain extent, Morris, but you're wrong about Booth and Francis. Both were highly regarded, IIRC.

I'm sick of Gary letting good talent get away. The biggest indictment against his lack of recruiting is the amount of players that played HS ball or were from the MD/DC area that he let get away. Durant, Anthony, Gay, to name a few.

[Jagwar]

And if they don't, it doesn't necessarily mean the recruiting was bad, but that the players don't work out.

100% agreed that if the players don't perform, it is not bad recruiting. I think my main point was that Gary's pattern from 02-06 put the program in a bad spot, especially if the players don't work out.

02-03 - 4 recruits and a JuCo recruit

03-04 - 5 players

04-05 - 1 recruit and a JuCo

05-06 - 1 recruit and a JuCo

Those last two are a big part of MD's struggles this year, because it leaves the Terps with a big gap between Gist/Osby and Hayes/Vasquez

[Todd-O]

Nice, more excuses.

I really don't understand why you're all over Gary. The guy came here and dragged the program out of the depths of hell. Do you have no memory of the probation?

The worst kind of critic is a hater. Frankly... I have no idea why someone would spend their time kicking someone who has accomplished far more than the critic could ever hope to accomplish in the same position. You were probably one of those folks that hated on him prior to 2002 saying he couldn't win the big one. Ooops. He won it... now you are tell us that he has to win more than one to be legit?

Please.

Gary has put together an amazing run... not always the greatest players... not always the greatest seasons... but he has won a freakin' National Championship. He has had a ton of amazingly fun and exhilerating seasons...

so they've hit a bump in the road. I can understand being disappointed. I'm DEFINITELY disappointed. I think all of us... especially folks who are shelling out big money to be Terp Clubbers and season Ticket holders. But I'm not going to go kicking this guy while he's down.

Your posts make him sound like the village idiot that doesn't deserve any praise.

Please.

If you're a booster, and you're unhappy, then cut the money. Get rid of your tickets... and stop watching. Write your letter to Debbie Yow. But don't come on here and hate all over Gary Williams... his accomplishments should be celebrated. That's freakin' rediculous.

[Jagwar]

tsand72... no one is saying anything negative about how Gary Williams rescued the MD program from a dark place. He should definitely be admired and appreciated for that. But that doesn't mean that he shouldn't be accountable for what has happened in the last 5 years since he led the team to the title.

The selection and timing of his recruiting choices led to 5 mediocre years, and there is nothing wrong with raising questions about him being the right or wrong person for the job right now. Whatever he did 20 years ago doesn't mean diddly squat about his ability to move the team out of this year's horrible performance.

[8istheman]

At this point we should be happy to get in the NIT. At this rate we will be playing the first game in the ACC tourny.

[BaltimoreTerp]

100% agreed that if the players don't perform, it is not bad recruiting. I think my main point was that Gary's pattern from 02-06 put the program in a bad spot, especially if the players don't work out.

02-03 - 4 recruits and a JuCo recruit

03-04 - 5 players

04-05 - 1 recruit and a JuCo

05-06 - 1 recruit and a JuCo

Those last two are a big part of MD's struggles this year, because it leaves the Terps with a big gap between Gist/Osby and Hayes/Vasquez

I agree with that. I think we're at least in the same chapter now, if not on the same page

And that brings up my question again: how much of what we are seeing is lack of athleticism and how much is lack of experience?

Are we going to have a quality veteran team in two years?

[Jagwar]

I agree with that. I think we're at least in the same chapter now, if not on the same page

And that brings up my question again: how much of what we are seeing is lack of athleticism and how much is lack of experience?

Are we going to have a quality veteran team in two years?

Veteran... yes. Quality... to be determined. You have Mosley, Gilchrist and Maze (JuCo) coming in next year, with Jin Soo Kim in 2009. Not sure where that leaves them for 2009 schollies available. I'm not convinced that Gilchrist will ever play a minute in a MD uniform.

What I don't like about Gary's teams the last few years is that he doesn't recruit shooters who know how to create shots. Mike Jones could shoot from anywhere, but imagine if he had ability to get open, or score off the dribble.

Gary really needs to find a few guards who can not only make threes, but create three point opps for themselves.

[accinfo]

I really don't understand why you're all over Gary. The guy came here and dragged the program out of the depths of hell. Do you have no memory of the probation?

.

More excuses. I keep quoteing facts and you are the one with the name calling with the "Hater" remark.

Maryland had a history before Gary Williams and this "pulling out of the depths of probation" spin is just another myth.

Just two years after the death of Bias a bad coach named Bob Wade took Md to the NCAA tournament and had recruited the likes of Brian Williams, Jerod Mustaf, and Walt Williams. All highly sought after recruits.

At no point after NCAA sanctions was the program as low as after the death of Len Bias, but Gary and his lemmings would love to make you think otherwise.

Again with the exception of the 4 years with Dixon. Baxter and Blake, Gary Williams has been a very ordinary coach. Those are the facts whether you want to hear them or not. It is all because he is does half of his job and doesn't go out and get the talent necessary to win at the level a school like Maryland should.

[Todd-O]

tsand72... no one is saying anything negative about how Gary Williams rescued the MD program from a dark place. He should definitely be admired and appreciated for that. But that doesn't mean that he shouldn't be accountable for what has happened in the last 5 years since he led the team to the title.

The selection and timing of his recruiting choices led to 5 mediocre years, and there is nothing wrong with raising questions about him being the right or wrong person for the job right now. Whatever he did 20 years ago doesn't mean diddly squat about his ability to move the team out of this year's horrible performance.

First off, my comments are not directed to you. They were directed at accinfo, who took time to make up a ridiculous post of Williams' coaching W-L records to prove that he is nothing but an "ordinary" coach. Direct quote.

It is just silly... that's why I am pointing out that his criticism is completely ludicris, unwarranted, and stupid.

Of course, many folks look at the past 5 years and get angry. I don't. I look at the past 5 years and see a lot of mis-fortune. I truly believe that the Terps probably would have been NCAA bound if Strawberry hadn't been lost for the year his freshmen year. I also believe that Maryland doesn't go NIT if McCray hadn't biffed... not to mention that they probably should have made the NCAAs with 19 wins and a nasty SOS (Carolina has done it).

Perhaps my expectations are different than yours. But I have enjoyed watching Gary from the moment he came to MD until now. I don't mind a somewhat scrappy underdog approach. I loved the teams of the early and late 90s. I still believe that MD had a great shot at the title the year they lost Ekeezie to the achilies injury and had to rely on a freshmen Baxter. Of, course the NC crew was great fun... but since that team there have been opportunities to rise again. Yes, there have been some major disasters. Gilchrist and McCray... Garrison... Fofona. But the team has persevered. Last year was a very enjoyable season (at least for me as a fan).

I'm not a gloom and doom type of person (unless, of course, you count me in on the Orioles decade of losing). I get frustrated with coach decisions, etc. The Fridge nearly drove me crazy this year!

But, I'm not about to jump all over the man when he has proven that he is truly a great coach.

[Sports Guy]

Accinfo has posted some interesting facts in this thread...No idea why so many people are hating on him for posting facts.

[BaltimoreTerp]

More excuses. I keep quoteing facts and you are the one with the name calling with the "Hater" remark.

Maryland had a history before Gary Williams and this "pulling out of the depths of probation" spin is just another myth.

Just two years after the death of Bias a bad coach named Bob Wade took Md to the NCAA tournament and had recruited the likes of Brian Williams, Jerod Mustaf, and Walt Williams. All highly sought after recruits.

At no point after NCAA sanctions was the program as low as after the death of Len Bias, but Gary and his lemmings would love to make you think otherwise.

Again with the exception of the 4 years with Dixon. Baxter and Blake, Gary Williams has been a very ordinary coach. Those are the facts whether you want to hear them or not. It is all because he is does half of his job and doesn't go out and get the talent necessary to win at the level a school like Maryland should.

Personally, I would like to suggest that you not call 99% of the fanbase "lemmings" and completely ignore things like the NCAA death penalty under Wade, who has since spent 20 years telling Baltimore recruits NOT to go to Maryland. You might actually get people to listen that way.

[BaltimoreTerp]

Accinfo has posted some interesting facts in this thread...No idea why so many people are hating on him for posting facts.

1) He's ignoring facts.

2) He's saying something that goes against what 99% of the fans think, and he's acting like we are all morons for not agreeing with him.

If he said the same things about Duke, you would be on him just as much.

[Todd-O]

You mean like his argument that he got lucky with Juan Dixon? I think ACCInfo's break-down, in an attempt to prove that Williams is an "ORDINARY" coach is foolish. The man has put together an amazing run... a run that 99% of schools in the country would BEG for.

Here's Gary's Coaching Accolades:

585 Career College Wins

7th Winningest Active Coach in D1

3rd winningest coach in ACC conference play history

Had 11 straight Tourney Appearances (12 overall at MD)

He's made it to the Sweet 16 SEVEN times and the Final 4 Twice.

Both an ACC and National Championship.

All time Winningest Coach in MD History and on the the 6th ACC coach to surpass 300 wins.

He has Won 66% of his NCAA tourney Games (27-14).

He's defeated #1 teams (6 times) more than any other coach in history.

Why crap on the guy?

I know everyone is frustrated... me included... but to begin picking him apart and to say that he is "ordinary" and should be fired is flat-out SILLY.