Ichiro Suzuki Becomes Sixth Professional Player with 4,000 Career Hits

[Redskins Rick]

Yeah, he's first class all the way.

On a side note, whatever happened to that reality show he had with the hot asian MILF?

[CA-ORIOLE]

Yeah. I really thought that show had potential.

[Redskins Rick]

Yeah. I really thought that show had potential.

mmmmm... eye candy maybe.... potential.....sure there is :rofl:

dang, just saw a picture of her, and was not for showing in a public forum.

[DrungoHazewood]

I heard on the radio that Peter Rose dismissed it as nonsense saying the Japanese pitching was inferior (which I'm not sure I get based on ichiros's ML production at an older age as compared to Rose's).

I'd bet that any serious study of quality of play between the majors in the 60s and the Japanese Leagues in the 90s would be unable to find any significant difference.

Rose came up just on the heels of expanding by four teams in two years, and then six years later expanded by another four teams. In 1960 the population of the US was 179 million and that would soon support 24 teams, the Japanese population was about 126 million supporting 12 teams. I think it would be hard to argue that Ichiro's leagues were noticeably worse than the majors over most of Rose's career.

[weams]

I don't consider minor league, Asian league, or Caribbean numbers to be combine-able with MLB statistics. Nor College, Nor high school, nor teener ball. I think that MLB statistics stand on their own. Now I know the numbers have been tainted with the PED scandals. But really. MLB numbers stand by themselves.

[CA-ORIOLE]

I don't consider minor league, Asian league, or Caribbean numbers to be combine-able with MLB statistics. Nor College, Nor high school, nor teener ball. I think that MLB statistics stand on their own. Now I know the numbers have been tainted with the PED scandals. But really. MLB numbers stand by themselves.

Do you think it's reasonable that Ichiro could have accumulated about 1,200 hits in the majors from age 21-26 considering what he has done in the majors from age 27 on?

[MurphDogg]

I don't consider minor league, Asian league, or Caribbean numbers to be combine-able with MLB statistics. Nor College, Nor high school, nor teener ball. I think that MLB statistics stand on their own. Now I know the numbers have been tainted with the PED scandals. But really. MLB numbers stand by themselves.

I count them for Ichiro because Ichiro was playing at the highest level that he could have at the time. Similar to players who were stars in the Negro League, there was nothing Ichiro could have done to join MLB earlier than he did. Guys that play in the Mexican League or Carribean Leagues generally had the opportunity to sign with an MLB team, an opportunity that is not afforded to Japanese amateur players.

[Malike]

Should we consider Matsui in the 500 home run club? I personally don't.

[CA-ORIOLE]

Should we consider Matsui in the 500 home run club? I personally don't.

No, but besides 500 HR's being a much lower bar than 4,000 hits you also have to give some consideration to Suzuki having almost 70% of his hits at the ML level while Matsui might have around 35% of his HR's there.

Obviously no in is saying this stuff should be adopted as the ML record, just taken into context.

[DrungoHazewood]

I don't consider minor league, Asian league, or Caribbean numbers to be combine-able with MLB statistics. Nor College, Nor high school, nor teener ball. I think that MLB statistics stand on their own. Now I know the numbers have been tainted with the PED scandals. But really. MLB numbers stand by themselves.

No, but besides 500 HR's being a much lower bar than 4,000 hits you also have to give some consideration to Suzuki having almost 70% of his hits at the ML level while Matsui might have around 35% of his HR's there.

Obviously no in is saying this stuff should be adopted as the ML record, just taken into context.

Yea, I'm not saying that records compiled in other leagues should count towards major league records. But that there's a continuum of baseball that should all go into a pot, and deserves a level of respect. I find it difficult to dismiss something like Ichiro's hit total when it's pretty much a fact that he was playing in a league that was a higher quality than any baseball that was played prior to WWII. Literally, Cy Young and Ty Cobb and probably Babe Ruth never played in a league that was as good as the Japanese Leagues of recent vintage. Heck, there are 19th century leagues that MLB counts as "Major" whose champions would have difficulty beating a decent AA team today.

[DrungoHazewood]

Should we consider Matsui in the 500 home run club? I personally don't.

Did he hit 500 homers? Then yes. But you should probably explain that they were split between Japan and the US.

[Malike]

No, but besides 500 HR's being a much lower bar than 4,000 hits you also have to give some consideration to Suzuki having almost 70% of his hits at the ML level while Matsui might have around 35% of his HR's there.

Obviously no in is saying this stuff should be adopted as the ML record, just taken into context.

I just find too many variables in saying I'm confident that Ichiro would have gotten 4,000 hits if he started in the US as opposed to Japan. Better pitching, would he have gotten involved in steroid use, etc. I think its great that he combined 4,000 hits in the two leagues, but there is a reason that guys like Tuffy Rhodes who hit 13 HR's and had 44 RBI in 6 years as a pro in the ML, but hit .325 with a .380 OBP and hit 288 HR's in 8 years in Japan was so successful. Rhodes twice had 50+ HR seasons in Japan, and career .659 OPS in the MLB. Some players are special, but its much much easier to find failed MLB players who became stars in Japan then it is to find Japanese stars who came stateside and remained stars.

[Malike]

Did he hit 500 homers? Then yes. But you should probably explain that they were split between Japan and the US.

They celebrated that when he was a Yankee, as if the milestone was meaningful to his career in the US.

[CA-ORIOLE]

I just find too many variables in saying I'm confident that Ichiro would have gotten 4,000 hits if he started in the US as opposed to Japan. Better pitching, would he have gotten involved in steroid use, etc. I think its great that he combined 4,000 hits in the two leagues, but there is a reason that guys like Tuffy Rhodes who hit 13 HR's and had 44 RBI in 6 years as a pro in the ML, but hit .325 with a .380 OBP and hit 288 HR's in 8 years in Japan was so successful. Rhodes twice had 50+ HR seasons in Japan, and career .659 OPS in the MLB. Some players are special, but its much much easier to find failed MLB players who became stars in Japan then it is to find Japanese stars who came stateside and remained stars.

That's fair. Every situation has to be taken into context and evaluated. I just think that looking at Ichiro's skillset and ML track record from 27 on that it's reasonable that he would have accumulated pretty close to those 1,200 or so hits from age 21-26 at the ML level.

[weams]

Do you think it's reasonable that Ichiro could have accumulated about 1,200 hits in the majors from age 21-26 considering what he has done in the majors from age 27 on?

I absolutely do. Easily. Unfortunately, he was not given that opportunity. Ted Williams would have had a couple extra fine years except for a war. So would Bob Feller. Sandy Koufax probably could have benefited from Tom John surgery.