Sherrill to...Cubs?

[Roll Tide]

You know I can totally understand SOME of the attitude toward a lot of the influx of Cub fans that have come to this board with irrational ideas and over the top love of Cub players and prospects which in turn try to down play Orioles value. But the constant automatic rolling of the eyes of any Cub fan giving an opinion is getting ridiculous. In a way automatically not crediting somebody with a different opinion on a Cub player is kind of the reverse thing your comment suggest toward the Cub fans. With that said of all the names thrown out even Hill I think Marmol is the least likely to be considered. I realize some don't value Marmol here because of the whole only a RP and I truly hate using this line, but this is one of those times when I will say most that comment about him probably don't realize how dominant and much of a life saver he was out of the pen last year. He lead the NL in stranded runners coming into games and I think this winter he went 14 IP 1 hit 1 walk with 22 k's. I think he's a baby K-Rod type talent so yeah although Sherill is great and a lefty he is 5 years older and Marmol is already better and his youth and upside surpass him. I think the recent rumor of Pie, Gally, and a prospect for B-Rob is step, but you get what you pay for and Pie is overrated anyway. I can understand any critique toward the Cubs farm, Rich Hill, or how some tend to think you can give up crap to get an all-star 2B, but the downplaying on Marmol to me is insane. He's lights out bottom-line

I wasn't down playing him ... Obvious the O's front office sees real value in Sherrill for some unknown reason. I was just suggesting if Mcphail said I'll give Roberts & Sherrill, & in return you give me Murton, Gallagher, & Marmol. Hendry & Pinella seem to want Roberts bad enough to make that deal. I'm not saying you , Skiba7 or Rob would like it. Just my opinion.

No. I can say with 100% confidence that there is no possible way Hendry would do that. That's just silly.

Unless Skiba7 is Hendry in disquise there's no way on Hell that he'd be 100% for sure!

Pie is overrated anyway

I've said this if you read the 7-2 thread & have been blistered by Rob H , & Davearm ... Not sure Siba7's feeling... I think Pie could very easily be the next Jeffrey Hammonds. I cant say for sure.... To be truthful I dont want to see the Orioles get any of Pie, Cedeno, & Patterson from the Cubs.

They are IMO all high risk guys... Pie (too many K's , CS 1 out 3 tries) doesn't look to be improving from year to year), Patterson (horrible footwork makes for questionable defense, If it couldn't be corrected & it hasn't thus far in the Cubs system it hasn't ...he'd be a low Homerun DH) ..Cedeno makes a ton of errors & I'm not convinced he will hit much better than L Hernandez... Since we aleady have Hernandez I would want a substantial upgrade offensively. You guys dont need to point out Cedeno's OPS I looked at his stats & the scouting reports.

Just My opinion.... I am not bashing the Cubs system ... The Orioles minor league system has been the laughing stock of baseball since sometime in the 80's ... After Cal its produced so few star postion players in nearly 20 years. It looks more proising today ... But for me to be a believer Rowell, Reimold , Wieters & the others will have to perform at the majors to convince me!

[waveland007]

I hate to say it, but I don't blame any team not truly trusting a cub position prospect. I think Soto will be good, but outside of him they always flop. From Bobby Hill to Kevin Orie to Corey the hits keep on coming lol.

[skiba7]

Unless Skiba7 is Hendry in disquise there's no way on Hell that he'd be 100% for sure!

I guess technically you're right, in that nobody can be 100% sure, but let me ask you something. Do you think it's possible that Bedard gets traded straight up for Sherrill? How sure? Could you say you're "100%"? Obviously that would be different that doing Marmol for Sherrill, but it's the same principle. The chances of that happening are the same of Marmol essentially being traded for Sherrill. There is no chance. NONE.

As for Pie, I'm not a big fan at all. However, trading him for Roberts would be ridiculous. His value has dropped, but it's certainly still better than that. I don't know what's more ridiculous, the thought of giving up Pie and Gallagher for Brian Roberts, or the thought that some Orioles fans wouldn't be happy with that return. I still don't think that happens anyways.

[nate22]

Well if Sherrill isn't part of a cubs deal, he seems to be at least accepting the possibility of becoming an Oriole.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/baseball/349437_mari31.html

[Bloopandablast]

Honestly its a lefty for a righty... Surely as a Cubs fan & as usual Marmol is far superior to Sherrill

I'm not surprised!

You do realize that despite Sherrils great era he is a 30 year-old specialist just to get out lefties. The last two years he has pitched in 145 games, but only in 85 innings with 4 saves. He comes in to face a couple of left bats and then sits down. And then you think the Cubs will want to flip Marmol for this guy?

[Roll Tide]

I guess technically you're right, in that nobody can be 100% sure, but let me ask you something. Do you think it's possible that Bedard gets traded straight up for Sherrill? How sure? Could you say you're "100%"? Obviously that would be different that doing Marmol for Sherrill, but it's the same principle. The chances of that happening are the same of Marmol essentially being traded for Sherrill. There is no chance. NONE.

As for Pie, I'm not a big fan at all. However, trading him for Roberts would be ridiculous. His value has dropped, but it's certainly still better than that. I don't know what's more ridiculous, the thought of giving up Pie and Gallagher for Brian Roberts, or the thought that some Orioles fans wouldn't be happy with that return. I still don't think that happens anyways.

With Jones the Orioles dont need Pie IMO. If he could be dealt to someone else for a piece the O's need them I'm ok with it. I want to see the Orioles be a better team ..much like I'm sure you want from the Cubs. Pie in CF & Jones in LF is not better than Jones in CF & Scott or Murton in LF (Offensively).. I dont have to like Pie or believe it makes sense for the Orioles & you cant make me. Any more than I can explain it & have you understand.

1 Do you think it's possible that Bedard gets traded straight up for Sherrill? 2 How sure? 3 Could you say you're "100%"? 4 Obviously that would be different that doing Marmol for Sherrill, but it's the same principle. The chances of that happening are the same of Marmol essentially being traded for Sherrill

1 not likely anyone would trade a ACE #1 pitcher for a reliever that has 1 good season ... Show me a case in history where that has happened!

2 pretty sure unless Mcphail still secretly works for the Cubs

3 99% I guess but I'm not AM

4 Not really ... Example put all the other names aside ... Mcphail calls Hendry & says I want Marmol in the Roberts deal! Hendry says ok I'm listening

Andy says "Gallagher & Marmol for Roberts & Sherrill or Walker" (your choice)

This scenario is totally made up by me .... But since to get Roberts it will take inclusion of Marmol then Hendry would decide if he wants Roberts & his 160 games , .300 avg, 50 steals, 10 hr's 200+ hits 90 walks 100 runs or Marmols 59 games ..69 innings 1.5 era or maybe his 2006 numbers 6.08 era & 77 innings or somewhere in the middle.

[skiba7]

With Jones the Orioles dont need Pie IMO. If he could be dealt to someone else for a piece the O's need them I'm ok with it. I want to see the Orioles be a better team ..much like I'm sure you want from the Cubs. Pie in CF & Jones in LF is not better than Jones in CF & Scott or Murton in LF (Offensively).. I dont have to like Pie or believe it makes sense for the Orioles & you cant make me. Any more than I can explain it & have you understand.

That's what I'm saying. Even if you don't like Pie, you could flip him for some better than you could ever hope to get for Roberts. Pie still has very good value.

1 not likely anyone would trade a ACE #1 pitcher for a reliever that has 1 good season ... Show me a case in history where that has happened!

2 pretty sure unless Mcphail still secretly works for the Cubs

3 99% I guess but I'm not AM

4 Not really ... Example put all the other names aside ... Mcphail calls Hendry & says I want Marmol in the Roberts deal! Hendry says ok I'm listening

Andy says "Gallagher & Marmol for Roberts & Sherrill or Walker" (your choice)

This scenario is totally made up by me .... But since to get Roberts it will take inclusion of Marmol then Hendry would decide if he wants Roberts & his 160 games , .300 avg, 50 steals, 10 hr's 200+ hits 90 walks 100 runs or Marmols 59 games ..69 innings 1.5 era or maybe his 2006 numbers 6.08 era & 77 innings or somewhere in the middle

First of all, I have no idea what you're even trying to say in most of this. It doesn't make any sense.

I am telling you right now Hendry would not include Marmol in a Roberts trade, period. No way. Not a chance. Since you seem to like using mock discussions, maybe I can get through to you that way. Here's how the conversation would go:

AM: "Alright, if you want Roberts, Marmol is going to have to be involved"

JH "Okay, bye."

There would be no discussion. There would be no hesitation. The answer would be an immediate and definitive no.

To be quite honest with you, I think this conversation is pretty ridiculous, and I'm putting that nicely. To compare value between Sherrill and Marmol is absolutely comical.

[SevisonJN]

Huh? When did I say that leadoff was a position? Seriously, I am not trying to pick a fight, but what the heck are you talking about?

Why not argue what makes a good leadoff hitter versus what doesn't and stay away from talking nonsense?

Oh and I'd take Roberts or Youk everyday of the week and twice on Sunday's over Soriano's worse than 4:1 k/bb ratio at leadoff. In fact, I can't think of anyone in the majors who hit leadoff last year that I would prefer Soriano to in that "position" as you like to refer to it as.

Just like closer isn't a real position. Leadoff hitter is the guy who bats first. Closer is the last guy to pitch. What's the difference? I can "Close" with anyone in the same manner that I can "Leadoff" with anyone. A closer is a name for your most effective relief pitcher.

[SevisonJN]

That's what I'm saying. Even if you don't like Pie, you could flip him for some better than you could ever hope to get for Roberts. Pie still has very good value.

First of all, I have no idea what you're even trying to say in most of this. It doesn't make any sense.

I am telling you right now Hendry would not include Marmol in a Roberts trade, period. No way. Not a chance. Since you seem to like using mock discussions, maybe I can get through to you that way. Here's how the conversation would go:

AM: "Alright, if you want Roberts, Marmol is going to have to be involved"

JH "Okay, bye."

There would be no discussion. There would be no hesitation. The answer would be an immediate and definitive no.

To be quite honest with you, I think this conversation is pretty ridiculous, and I'm putting that nicely. To compare value between Sherrill and Marmol is absolutely comical.

It is starting to look like Bedard is going to sign an extension. If that happens, Roberts will stay an Oriole as we are not in a true rebuilding mode. I hate the way Angelos views baseball manners.

[RShack]

With Jones the Orioles dont need Pie IMO.

That's only true if you know for sure that one or both will deliver on his potential. But you don't know that. As a MiL player, Corey Patterson was rated higher than both of those guys, and look how he turned out. If you get both Jones and Pie, then you've doubled your chances of getting an Actual CF'er out of it who's special rather than a disappointment. You can't tell ahead of time what these guys (or any guys) are gonna do, it's impossible.

[SevisonJN]

With Jones the Orioles dont need Pie IMO. If he could be dealt to someone else for a piece the O's need them I'm ok with it. I want to see the Orioles be a better team ..much like I'm sure you want from the Cubs. Pie in CF & Jones in LF is not better than Jones in CF & Scott or Murton in LF (Offensively).. I dont have to like Pie or believe it makes sense for the Orioles & you cant make me. Any more than I can explain it & have you understand.

1 not likely anyone would trade a ACE #1 pitcher for a reliever that has 1 good season ... Show me a case in history where that has happened!

2 pretty sure unless Mcphail still secretly works for the Cubs

3 99% I guess but I'm not AM

4 Not really ... Example put all the other names aside ... Mcphail calls Hendry & says I want Marmol in the Roberts deal! Hendry says ok I'm listening

Andy says "Gallagher & Marmol for Roberts & Sherrill or Walker" (your choice)

This scenario is totally made up by me .... But since to get Roberts it will take inclusion of Marmol then Hendry would decide if he wants Roberts & his 160 games , .300 avg, 50 steals, 10 hr's 200+ hits 90 walks 100 runs or Marmols 59 games ..69 innings 1.5 era or maybe his 2006 numbers 6.08 era & 77 innings or somewhere in the middle.

Maybe the Orioles have a side deal to flip Pie to the Padres for Khalil Greene. Someone did mention a series of trades tied to Bedard being dealt. Maybe a trade of Pie, Sherrill, and/or Payton is in our future if this whole thing plays out. By the way, you are not dealing an Ace for a reliever. You are dealing him for a package of players. Look what the Twins got back in the Santana deal.

Jones is a better ballplayer than Carlos Gomez

Tillman is a better than any of the pitchers the Mets gave up

Butler as good as any of the pitchers the Mets gave up

Sherrill is a good bet to close, possibly allowing Walker to be flipped.

You have to look at the entire package.

[SevisonJN]

That's only true if you know for sure that one or both will deliver on his potential. But you don't know that. As a MiL player, Corey Patterson was rated higher than both of those guys, and look how he turned out. If you get both Jones and Pie, then you've doubled your chances of getting an Actual CF'er out of it who's special rather than a disappointment. You can't tell ahead of time what these guys (or any guys) are gonna do, it's impossible.

People act like having two quality players at the same position is a huge dilema. I bet the Angels would hate having two Torii Hunters! What would they do?

[Roll Tide]

That's what I'm saying. Even if you don't like Pie, you could flip him for some better than you could ever hope to get for Roberts. Pie still has very good value.

First of all, I have no idea what you're even trying to say in most of this. It doesn't make any sense.

I am telling you right now Hendry would not include Marmol in a Roberts trade, period. No way. Not a chance. Since you seem to like using mock discussions, maybe I can get through to you that way. Here's how the conversation would go:

AM: "Alright, if you want Roberts, Marmol is going to have to be involved"

JH "Okay, bye."

There would be no discussion. There would be no hesitation. The answer would be an immediate and definitive no.

To be quite honest with you, I think this conversation is pretty ridiculous, and I'm putting that nicely. To compare value between Sherrill and Marmol is absolutely comical.

I was answering the questions from the previous thread ... look at the questions you have asked. Then tell me what you dont understand!

We could flip Pie which I guess is possible ..But with Mcphail & Angelos pace I'd prefer to take my chances with Murton or Colvin.

Marmol has 1 good year ! Prove otherwise ! He had a 6.00+ era the year before. To say he's a sure thing to reproduce 2007 is possible I guess, but its more likely he will be somewhere between his 2006 & 2007 stats. Quite frankly it was a great year. He's not likely to be that good in 2008 ... If you want to wager on it PM me & we can set some terms!

I think this conversation is pretty ridiculous

I agree with you Marmol

is Great,Roberts & Sherrill aren't worth considering in a deal.

I am done arguing this point its a WOT!

[RShack]

People act like having two quality players at the same position is a huge dilema. I bet the Angels would hate having two Torii Hunters! What would they do?

Win.

.

[Roll Tide]

Maybe the Orioles have a side deal to flip Pie to the Padres for Khalil Greene. Someone did mention a series of trades tied to Bedard being dealt. Maybe a trade of Pie, Sherrill, and/or Payton is in our future if this whole thing plays out. By the way, you are not dealing an Ace for a reliever. You are dealing him for a package of players. Look what the Twins got back in the Santana deal.

Jones is a better ballplayer than Carlos Gomez

Tillman is a better than any of the pitchers the Mets gave up

Butler as good as any of the pitchers the Mets gave up

Sherrill is a good bet to close, possibly allowing Walker to be flipped.

You have to look at the entire package.

@SevisonJN I agree that what you're saying is possible. If they get Pie, I hope your right. At the speed AM moves I dont like the idea of getting a guy to move in a later deal. Maybe he will pick up the pace after the Bedard thing happens. But probably not according to what the Cubs guys have said on here.