Sherrill to...Cubs?

[Roll Tide]

That's only true if you know for sure that one or both will deliver on his potential. But you don't know that. As a MiL player, Corey Patterson was rated higher than both of those guys, and look how he turned out. If you get both Jones and Pie, then you've doubled your chances of getting an Actual CF'er out of it who's special rather than a disappointment. You can't tell ahead of time what these guys (or any guys) are gonna do, it's impossible.

Maybe ... but at the cost of having LH at SS, Millar/Gibbons/Huff at 1B , whoever plays 2B once Roberts leaves. Considering the holes I'd like to get a guy who can fill one of the other gaping holes the Orioles have.

[RShack]

Maybe the Orioles have a side deal to flip Pie to the Padres for Khalil Greene.

Maybe they don't. If AM is getting guys who are potential future-stars, I don't think he's doing it to "flip" them. Especially before he knows if they're gonna turn out to be good.

[SevisonJN]

Win.

.

Exactly. PA needs to realize that there are three ways to win depending on your situation.

1.) Let the young guys play

2.) Sign top notch FA tolucrative deals

3.) Supplement your veterans with young talent

I like option #3 the best, but it doesn't work for us because there isn't much major league ready talent outside of ur young pitching. #2 will not work because Angelos will not open hsi checkbook for more than 1-2 premium players. We give the appearence that we are making fair offers, but eventually lose the player to another team. I think option #1 is the best bet for quickly righting the ship and that isn't likely without dealing Bedard and Roberts.

[SevisonJN]

Maybe they don't. If AM is getting guys who are potential future-stars, I don't think he's doing it to "flip" them. Especially before he knows if they're gonna turn out to be good.

Not sure. I would take Pie, Scott, Markakis, and Jones over just about any other outfield in baseball. I am just trying to get people thinking.

[SevisonJN]

@SevisonJN I agree that what you're saying is possible. If they get Pie, I hope your right. At the speed AM moves I dont like the idea of getting a guy to move in a later deal. Maybe he will pick up the pace after the Bedard thing happens. But probably not according to what the Cubs guys have said on here.

I get the point of the Orioles waiting it out initially, but why widdle the field down to one suitor? Seattle is giving us a pretty good package although for the most part they seem to be bidding against themselves. I think we could deal Bedard, Roberts, and Payton to the Cubbies, but I don't like the deal. I would want Pie, Vitters, Veal, Gallagher, Cedeno/EPat, and Hill.

Assuming they are talking Pie, Gallagher, and Cedeno/EPat for just Roberts. A package of Vitters, Veal, and Hill for Bedard, Payton, and Penn/Olson would be somewhat along the lines of what the Mariners are offering. Why would the cubs want to make the trade?

[RShack]

Maybe ... but at the cost of having LH at SS, Millar/Gibbons/Huff at 1B , whoever plays 2B once Roberts leaves. Considering the holes I'd like to get a guy who can fill one of the other gaping holes the Orioles have.

AM can't fix the whole dang franchise with big trades, and he can't do it one winter. Even if he's Superman he can't do that. If he can fix 2 or 3 problems this off-season, that's good, that's a lot. This is not a quick-fix kinda problem, and the team is not gonna be ready for prime time in 2008. 2009 either. Everybody needs to take a Patience Pill.

(And if somebody who's reading this is tempted to respond with some comment about the last 10 years, don't. Take two Patience Pills instead ;-)

[health55]

You do realize that despite Sherrils great era he is a 30 year-old specialist just to get out lefties. The last two years he has pitched in 145 games, but only in 85 innings with 4 saves. He comes in to face a couple of left bats and then sits down. And then you think the Cubs will want to flip Marmol for this guy?

In 2007, George Sherrill apparently faced righthanded batters in 60 of his 73 appearances. Righthanded batters hit .212 against Sherrill in 66 official at-bats while lefthanded batters hit .156 in 90 official at-bats.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/7379/splits;_ylt=ApuIqkStpQylSjsBq.JJagSFCLcF?year=2007&type=Pitching

In contrast, Jamie Walker in 2007 faced righthanded batters in 76 of his 81 appearances. Righthanded batters hit .268 against Walker in 123 official at-bats while lefthanded hitters hit .216 in 111 official at-bats.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/5781/splits;_ylt=AvYNAAJy9uiP0JXDm.tCPxqFCLcF

I hope that provides some perspective.

[square634]

In 2007, George Sherrill apparently faced righthanded batters in 60 of his 73 appearances. Righthanded batters hit .212 against Sherrill in 66 official at-bats while lefthanded batters hit .156 in 90 official at-bats.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/7379/splits;_ylt=ApuIqkStpQylSjsBq.JJagSFCLcF?year=2007&type=Pitching

In contrast, Jamie Walker in 2007 faced righthanded batters in 76 of his 81 appearances. Righthanded batters hit .268 against Walker in 123 official at-bats while lefthanded hitters hit .216 in 111 official at-bats.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/5781/splits;_ylt=AvYNAAJy9uiP0JXDm.tCPxqFCLcF

I hope that provides some perspective.

Unfortunately, there is a selection bias whenever you look at a LOOGY's stats against right-handers because managers pull LOOGY's against the best right handed hitters. Also, there are sample size issues.

[Roll Tide]

Unfortunately, there is a selection bias whenever you look at a LOOGY's stats against right-handers because managers pull LOOGY's against the best right handed hitters. Also, there are sample size issues.

True but the rumors are 1) The Orioles will flip him in another trade or put him in the Closers role. If what you say is true, if its the later that spells disaster for the Orioles.

[clarence]

Regarding the comment about Pie getting equal value to BRob in a trade, that is pure insanity. It is comments like this that make message boards irrelevant to the mainstream journalists.

[Roll Tide]

Regarding the comment about Pie getting equal value to BRob in a trade, that is pure insanity. It is comments like this that make message boards irrelevant to the mainstream journalists.

I'm not sure what previous post you are referring to? Could you place a quote to allow it to be more clear.

[skiba7]

Marmol has 1 good year ! Prove otherwise ! He had a 6.00+ era the year before. To say he's a sure thing to reproduce 2007 is possible I guess, but its more likely he will be somewhere between his 2006 & 2007 stats.

Ughh, another person who knows nothing about a player, looks at their numbers, and then pretends to. Marmol was a position player for a long time and then changed to a pitcher, so you can't look at minor league numbers. In 2006 he was being used a starter mostly and didn't do well. He switched to the bullpen and was ridiculpusly good. If you actually *watched* marmol pitch and saw his stuff, we wouldn't be having this conversation. So yeah, he's only had one good year in the majors. Guess what? Adam Jones has had zero. Colby Rasmus has had zero. Jay Bruce has had zero. Does that mean it's okay to trade them for Roberts? Obviously those guys are more valuable than Marmol, but the "he's only had one good year" argument is extremely weak.

[Roll Tide]

Ughh, another person who knows nothing about a player, looks at their numbers, and then pretends to. Marmol was a position player for a long time and then changed to a pitcher, so you can't look at minor league numbers. In 2006 he was being used a starter mostly and didn't do well. He switched to the bullpen and was ridiculpusly good. If you actually *watched* marmol pitch and saw his stuff, we wouldn't be having this conversation. So yeah, he's only had one good year in the majors. Guess what? Adam Jones has had zero. Colby Rasmus has had zero. Jay Bruce has had zero. Does that mean it's okay to trade them for Roberts? Obviously those guys are more valuable than Marmol, but the "he's only had one good year" argument is extremely weak.

Really Skiba ... We wont agree so lets say we drop it!

Relief pitchers other than closers dont often have significant trade value... Comparing Marmol's trade value to Rasmus, Bruce, & Adam Jones is pretty comical.

I'm sure you will come up with some other comments to continue this ... But as I have asked above lets agree to disagree.

[skiba7]

Comparing Marmol's trade value to Rasmus, Bruce, & Adam Jones is pretty comical.

Did you not see the part immediately after that where I said I wasn't comparing their trade value? I was trying to make a point. Apparently a point that you missed. Just forget it.

[davearm]

I hate to say it, but I don't blame any team not truly trusting a cub position prospect. I think Soto will be good, but outside of him they always flop. From Bobby Hill to Kevin Orie to Corey the hits keep on coming lol.

This is some seriously flawed logic.

The successes (or lack thereof) of guys like B. Hill and Orie and CPat will have absolutely, positively no impact on the careers of guys like Soto and Pie and Colvin etc.

By the same token, guys like Gallagher and Veal and Samardzija aren't in any better position for having come from the same system that produced Maddux and Zambrano and Wood etc.

It'd be like flipping a quarter heads four or five times in a row and then saying, "boy, I can't blame anyone for thinking this quarter will never come up tails." It's a total fallacy.