Is Markakis Greatest Value to us Sentimental?

[Gofannon]

I completely agree with this, and it doesn't even bring up the extra value that Lough gives on the base over Nick as well. I could see Lough posting 2-3 dWAR next year from defense alone (he has done 1-1.5 in limited time the each of the last 2 years... any offense he gives us is just gravy, while Nick is normally -1.0 dWAR or so. I'd expect a 3-4 WAR season from Lough over a full year, with about 80% of it coming from his defense and baserunning.

It might not look pretty on the standard offensive stats people see, but he'd be an important player in the actual game.

I find this post ironic, given that this board had a lengthy discussion of whether Lough was the worst baserunner in Orioles history a couple of months ago.

The issue of Nick Markakis aside, based on what I saw from David Lough this year, I don't want him anywhere near the starting lineup.

[AlbionHero]

I find this post ironic, given that this board had a lengthy discussion of whether Lough was the worst baserunner in Orioles history a couple of months ago.

The issue of Nick Markakis aside, based on what I saw from David Lough this year, I don't want him anywhere near the starting lineup.

David Lough had a 2.7 baserunning value on Fangraphs, while Markakis had a -2.7. Only player on the O's with better baserunning in 2014 was Adam Jones, with a 4.6 baserunning value.

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=0&type=8&season=2014&month=0&season1=2014&ind=0&team=2&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&sort=17,d

[DrungoHazewood]

David Lough had a 2.7 baserunning value on Fangraphs, while Markakis had a -2.7. Only player on the O's with better baserunning in 2014 was Adam Jones, with a 4.6 baserunning value.

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=0&type=8&season=2014&month=0&season1=2014&ind=0&team=2&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&sort=17,d

When you start judging players by feeling instead of a careful accounting of their actions you'll see just how wrong you are.

[AlbionHero]

When you start judging players by feeling instead of a careful accounting of their actions you'll see just how wrong you are.

So what, a couple well known miscues ruins an entire season of otherwise very good baserunning? He's the fastest guy on the team and nearly always gets the extra base.

[Dipper9]

How would you feel if we let Nick walk' date=' used his money towards someone like Cruz, having the following OF's on the roster: Jones, Cruz, DeAza, Pearce and Lough with Alvarez waiting in AAA, and Davis at 1B?[/quote']

I think this would be my plan.

[backwardsk]

If he was playing for Cleveland or Milwaukee' date=' would you be looking to sign him? What would your offer be? Do you think Dan has any sentimental ties to Nick? Will he have to listen to Angelos?[/quote']

To add to that, if you are looking for OBP at the top of the order, would Aoki be a better investment? In all likelihood, he would command less money.

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[webbrick2010]

To add to that, if you are looking for OBP at the top of the order, would Aoki be a better investment? In all likelihood, he would command less money.

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No thanks, Aoki is not very good defensively

[Frobby]

So what, a couple well known miscues ruins an entire season of otherwise very good baserunning? He's the fastest guy on the team and nearly always gets the extra base.

He took an extra base 60% of the time. That's very high. His base stealing was not as good as it should be -- 8 of 13, plus a pickoff not counted as a caught stealing. He was thrown out on the bases two other times, though I don't know the details.

[AlbionHero]

Honestly best way to replace him is likely a platoon between Lough and a cheap right handed bat on the free agent market we can grab for a couple million. With Lough getting 400-450 ABs and the other guy getting 150, I'm sure you'd get better offensive and defensive production across the board than paying Markakis 12 million to play every day.

[El Gordo]

If nICK were playing for another team we'd be looking at an OF of De Aza, Lough and Pearce. We could use a good RH OF bat to add to that mix. I'd prefer two years of Cuddyer to three years of Nick.

[scOtt]

Haven't read the whole thread yet... part of it is sentimental, no doubt. But his consistency is what I value. You KNOW what you're going to get, at a minimum. If you talk about DeAza or Lough, you might get Nick's value. Or you might get zero or even negative WAR. You don't know.

[scOtt]

JMO but I doubt that Angelos is telling DD who to sign after DD gave him a 99 win season and a Division championship.

I think Big Peter is out of baseball decisions also. If Nick is brought back it will be Dan's decision (with Buck tugging at his pants leg.)

[weams]

If he was playing for Cleveland or Milwaukee' date=' would you be looking to sign him? What would your offer be? Do you think Dan has any sentimental ties to Nick? Will he have to listen to Angelos?[/quote']

If he was on another team, we'd be emphasizing his OBP (.342) and comparing it to our abysmal .311. Of course, without him it would be worse than .311.

I'd be offering him something close to his WAR value (basically 2.0 or slightly above for the past few years). So 10 or 11M annually roughly.

Does Dan have any sentimental ties to Nick? Definitely not. Dan is all business.

Of course he has to listen to ownership who is likely more sentimental........but I think the deal will get done for close to what I have listed here.

Are John and Lou Angelos big Nick fans? If so, I imagine there is some pressure to attempt to develop a reasonable deal for Nick. Reasonable. If none is available, even if Lou and John are HUGE Nick fans, I am sure they will lobby the Advocates to put Nick in the Orioles HOF when the time comes.

[AlbionHero]

Haven't read the whole thread yet... part of it is sentimental, no doubt. But his consistency is what I value. You KNOW what you're going to get, at a minimum. If you talk about DeAza or Lough, you might get Nick's value. Or you might get zero or even negative WAR. You don't know.

What makes you think you'd get negative WAR from Lough? Even in a year where the fans gave up on him and he was in Bucks doghouse, he was worth 2 WAR. Do you really think he could get even worse than that? I'd say 1.5-2 WAR is the minimum from him.

[scOtt]

I think this would be my plan.

Say no to Cruz. He was a beautiful Cubic Zirconia this year! Not a diamond.