Anyone Else Getting Excited about Manny?

[PA724_Oriole]

Do yall realize there are HOFers who never eclipsed the 8 mark in WAR. And there are others who have exlipsed that mark and didnt make the HOF.

JD.Drew put up a 9.2 in 2007.

He must be better and had more potential than anyone currently on the Os. According to some of your guys theories.

[El Gordo]

Geez. Idk how baseball ever existed without WAR.

I wonder how Babe Ruth was considered the best player ever before WARs existence. And guess what, now that we have WAR, he is still considered to be the best.

And WAR did absolutely nothing.

I dont understand how people figured out who the best players were over the years without WAR since it seems to be the end all be all.

You don't need WAR to figure out how talented Manny is, or what his potential might be. Most people, even Brooksie compared him favorably to Brooks with the glove, and his bat at ages 19-21 was far better than Brooks' at the same age. Brooks is a HOF and Manny has a higher ceiling than he had, because Manny's bat has more potential. I know because I saw Brooks play at his age 19-21 season just as I have seen Manny play at those same ages.

[Can_of_corn]

You don't need WAR to figure out how talented Manny is, or what his potential might be. Most people, even Brooksie compared him favorably to Brooks with the glove, and his bat at ages 19-21 was far better than Brooks' at the same age. Brooks is a HOF and Manny has a higher ceiling than he had, because Manny's bat has more potential. I know because I saw Brooks play at his age 19-21 season just as I have seen Manny play at those same ages.

I was hoping no one would reply to him and he would spend the next hour arguing with himself.

[malkusm]

Manny reminds me of Ken Griffey Jr. One of the best payers IF he stays healthy. Machado will have a damn good career but he will always fight injuries, therefore he won't be what ppl are expecting.

Griffey won an MVP award, hit 630 HR, stole 184 bases, won 10 Gold Gloves, and is a sure first-ballot HOF'er. I'm not sure what you think people are expecting of Manny, but if he becomes Griffey I think all of us will be on cloud nine.

[PA724_Oriole]

Griffey won an MVP award, hit 630 HR, stole 184 bases, won 10 Gold Gloves, and is a sure first-ballot HOF'er. I'm not sure what you think people are expecting of Manny, but if he becomes Griffey I think all of us will be on cloud nine.

With all due respect the point I was making was ppl expected Griffey to be way better but due to his injuries he was slowed down. That's the only comparison I was making was that he will be limited because I believe he will have constant injury problems.

I know Manny will be good, I know he could potentially win the MVP.

Obviously me comparing the two wasnt a knock on Machado.

[PA724_Oriole]

I mean I guess it kind of was, but only towards his injury concerns. That's all.

[hendu]

I saw that this thread was on page six, and I thought that there would be some interesting conversation in the past few pages. That was disappointing.

[Il BuonO]

I saw that this thread was on page six, and I thought that there would be some interesting conversation in the past few pages. That was disappointing.

Yes, well that would be difficult when people have a hard time accepting new statistics as useful in a conversation. After all, if homers and RBIs were good enough for the Babe....yada yada yada.

[PA724_Oriole]

Yes, well that would be difficult when people have a hard time accepting new statistics as useful in a conversation. After all, if homers and RBIs were good enough for the Babe....yada yada yada.

Hahaha

[SteveO]

Geez. Idk how baseball ever existed without WAR.

I wonder how Babe Ruth was considered the best player ever before WARs existence. And guess what, now that we have WAR, he is still considered to be the best.

And WAR did absolutely nothing.

I dont understand how people figured out who the best players were over the years without WAR since it seems to be the end all be all.

Well there was thing called scouting. Manny happens to scout out as an exceptionally gifted player. If you cannot see that then I am not sure what player you have been watching.

Saying how was Babe Ruth considered the best player before WAR existed as way of diminishing the value of the statistic is akin to akin to trying to diminish Newtons Theory of Gravity just because things managed to stick to the surface of planet earth before he postulated it. Silliness.

[PA724_Oriole]

Well there was thing called scouting. Manny happens to scout out as an exceptionally gifted player. If you cannot see that then I am not sure what player you have been watching.

Idk what to say to this other than I never said he wasn't.

I just thought ppl saying he is a MVP caliber player at the moment when he has trouble playing a whole season is silliness.

[Frobby]

Idk what to say to this other than I never said he wasn't.

I just thought ppl saying he is a MVP caliber player at the moment when he has trouble playing a whole season is silliness.

You need to get a grip. Since I'm the one who said it, I'll repeat what I said: I predict that if Manny stays healthy he'll put up an .850 OPS and be a top 5 MVP candidate. That's not a matter of fact. I'm not overstating any facts. I'm giving you my opinion. You're free to disagree with it.

That said, it's extremely obvious that Manny has a higher ceiling than Jones, if defense is a part of the equation. Jones is a four time all star, and deserves to be, so I'm not knocking him. But Manny is one of the very best defensive 3B I've seen in 50 years of watching baseball, and his hitting at ages 19-21 was better than Jones' at 22, even if you don't adjust for the fact that 2012-14 wasn't as favorable an offensive era as 2008. There's every reason to think that by age 26-27 he'll be a better hitter than Jones ever was, but in truth, he doesn't have to be, because his defense at 3B is so soectacular. Mind you, this is all my opinion, so don't suggest I'm making a statement of fact that Manny will be better than Jones ever was. I don't pretend that I can predict the future, though I do have my opinions about what will happen.

[PA724_Oriole]

You need to get a grip. Since I'm the one who said it, I'll repeat what I said: I predict that if Manny stays healthy he'll put up an .850 OPS and be a top 5 MVP candidate. That's not a matter of fact. I'm not overstating any facts. I'm giving you my opinion. You're free to disagree with it.

That said, it's extremely obvious that Manny has a higher ceiling than Jones, if defense is a part of the equation. Jones is a four time all star, and deserves to be, so I'm not knocking him. But Manny is one of the very best defensive 3B I've seen in 50 years of watching baseball, and his hitting at ages 19-21 was better than Jones' at 22, even if you don't adjust for the fact that 2012-14 wasn't as favorable an offensive era as 2008. There's every reason to think that by age 26-27 he'll be a better hitter than Jones ever was, but in truth, he doesn't have to be, because his defense at 3B is so soectacular. Mind you, this is all my opinion, so don't suggest I'm making a statement of fact that Manny will be better than Jones ever was. I don't pretend that I can predict the future, though I do have my opinions about what will happen.

Get a grip? Idk what impression I gave off for you to make a comment like that. You just said I have the right to disagree and that's all I have done. Argued my opinion which was that even if healthy I don't think he will be a MVP candidate and everything else involving Jones had nothing to do with you unless you chimed in at some point and I missed it or just dont remember. Geez.

[BohKnowsBmore]

As I've stated in a few threads, I believe Manny will be a top 5 MVP candidate this year, posting an .850 OPS and playing the kind of defense to which we've become accustomed. Certainly this article only reinforces my opinion. I think he's only scratched the surface of what he can do offensively.

When he came back this past year, he made me really question my initial estimates of his power potential. He had such a smooth swing that was taking balls out of the park, he was starting to look like a guy with 30-35 HR top-end potential, rather than the 20 - 25 tops that I initially thought he would settle in at (with high teens being frequent).

[BohKnowsBmore]

No one has said anything close to this. No one has called him a Hall of Famer or said he is going to be better than anyone. We are saying he has the POTENTIAL to be better IF he stays healthy. He has shown he is capable of doing this previously. That's it. That's the thesis. I don't see how this is difficult to grasp. Either your reading comprehension is lacking or you're being intentionally obtuse.

While it is far too early to say one way or the other and anything CAN happen, isn't the list of guys with 10+ WAR through their age-21 season incredibly encouraging? Something like a 40% chance of being a HOF'er or something like that?