Anyone Else Getting Excited about Manny?

[DrungoHazewood]

Yeah. Bouncing around the infield and the bases on 2 surgically repaired knees is nothing to be concerned about. I'll reserve judgment until he proves he an hold up.

I have two surgically repaired knees (13+ years ago) and they're less of a problem than the bits I haven't had fixed.

[Gurgi]

Hopefully with his baseball wife the kids get her knees and not his. He needs to give us lots of boys......I have big expectations for the little Manny's that will be coming along

[PA724_Oriole]

He was 11th in MLB among position players in rWAR in 2013. If he stays healthy, he could definitely crack the top 10 with a modest offensive improvement. Unless Chris Davis pulls another 2013, a healthy Manny is likely the best player on the O's.

What exactly is "r"WAR, since there seems to be multiple versions of this glorious stat?

And to me AJ is the best player. Even with Manny healthy.

[Babypowder]

What exactly is "r"WAR, since there seems to be multiple versions of this glorious stat?

And to me AJ is the best player. Even with Manny healthy.

The r signifies the Baseball Reference version, which I prefer because I like DRS as a defensive metric better than UZR/150. Manny was a full 2 wins better than AJ in 2013 (both by Fangraphs and BR), when he was healthy most of the year. If he's healthy again this year, I expect we see something similar. AJ isn't the otherworldly defender in center that Manny is at third, and they weren't that far apart offensively this season before Manny went down either. Jones was ahead by wRC+ only 117 to 111. They key obviously being health. He has to be back to full mobility.

[beervendor]

Agreed that MM's best-case 2015 is a terribly exciting prospect. Let's not forget there was a significant maturity issue last year - henceforth known as "L'Affaire Donaldson." By various accounts here, his recent comments show he's either matured in the intervening months or may have a messiah complex.

[PA724_Oriole]

The r signifies the Baseball Reference version, which I prefer because I like DRS as a defensive metric better than UZR/150. Manny was a full 2 wins better than AJ in 2013 (both by Fangraphs and BR), when he was healthy most of the year. If he's healthy again this year, I expect we see something similar. AJ isn't the otherworldly defender in center that Manny is at third, and they weren't that far apart offensively this season before Manny went down either. Jones was ahead by wRC+ only 117 to 111. They key obviously being health. He has to be back to full mobility.

I'm sure teams are more careful pitching to Jones than Manny. So the numbers aren't a end all be all for me when comparing the two. If we lost AJ for as long as wr did Manny, and Manny was still healthy, I don't think we win the division as convincingly.I think without either of them, it significantly hurts the team. But when I think best player, I also take into attitude and leadership. And what Manny did during the Donaldson altercation I feel was very immature and classless. That resulting in a suspension hampered the team. And the best players dont do that.

If Manny can hit thirty bombs while hitting .280+ and play a full season, I will have this debate again.

[Babypowder]

I'm sure teams are more careful pitching to Jones than Manny. So the numbers aren't a end all be all for me when comparing the two. If we lost AJ for as long as wr did Manny, and Manny was still healthy, I don't think we win the division as convincingly.I think without either of them, it significantly hurts the team. But when I think best player, I also take into attitude and leadership. And what Manny did during the Donaldson altercation I feel was very immature and classless. That resulting in a suspension hampered the team. And the best players dont do that.

If Manny can hit thirty bombs while hitting .280+ and play a full season, I will have this debate again.

Got it, so home runs + batting average + attitude and personality are your formula for best player. I guess we just disagree at a fundamental level.

[PA724_Oriole]

Got it, so home runs + batting average + attitude and personality are your formula for best player. I guess we just disagree at a fundamental level.

It sure in the hell beats back to back knee surgeries and a childish temper.

You'll who want to go by possibility instead of actuality, go ahead.

It's funny how you're guys theory of Manny comes with a big IF. I have no concerns about what AJ will continue and I dont have to say IF healthy.

Plus Mike Trout I'd considered the best position player by many. But it's funny how everyone was taking about Puig giving him a run for his money until everyone find out how much of a ass he is.

[Babypowder]

It sure in the hell beats back to back knee surgeries and a childish temper.

You'll who want to go by possibility instead of actuality, go ahead.

It's funny how you're guys theory of Manny comes with a big IF. I have no concerns about what AJ will continue and I dont have to say IF healthy.

Plus Mike Trout I'd considered the best position player by many. But it's funny how everyone was taking about Puig giving him a run for his money until everyone find out how much of a ass he is.

Machado was ACTUALLY a better player in 2013 when he was mostly healthy. This entire thread is based on the premise that Manny is healthy. Of course that isn't a certainty. I also have no doubt that Adam Jones will continue to be a very steady, very good player. However, his defensive limitations and offensive approach will continue to hold him back from being a truly elite player. Manny Machado has already shown the potential to make that jump IF he can remain healthy... which is the entire premise of this thread.

[PA724_Oriole]

Machado was ACTUALLY a better player in 2013 when he was mostly healthy. This entire thread is based on the premise that Manny is healthy. Of course that isn't a certainty. I also have no doubt that Adam Jones will continue to be a very steady, very good player. However, his defensive limitations and offensive approach will continue to hold him back from being a truly elite player. Manny Machado has already shown the potential to make that jump IF he can remain healthy... which is the entire premise of this thread.

Mannys offensive approach is VERY similar to Jones.

What are Jones' limitations defensively?

He goes back on balls well, he comes in on balls well. He robs homers and I never witnessed miscommunication in the OF when he is on the field.

Other than Mannys platinum glove winning year, Jones had been just as good defensively.

[Can_of_corn]

Mannys offensive approach is VERY similar to Jones.

What are Jones' limitations defensively?

He goes back on balls well, he comes in on balls well. He robs homers and I never witnessed miscommunication in the OF when he is on the field.

Other than Mannys platinum glove winning year, Jones had been just as good defensively.

You're mistaken.

[El Gordo]

AJ is a very good all around player but I doubt he ever makes the MVP. Manny has the potential to. He will be a much more disciplined hitter eventually. and in the not too distant future. He will hit 20+ HR this season and can hit 30 IMO. And his glove is as good as Brooks Robinson's, the best defensive 3B in history. AJ is a slightly better than average CF at best.

[PA724_Oriole]

AJ is a very good all around player but I doubt he ever makes the MVP. Manny has the potential to. He will be a much more disciplined hitter eventually. and in the not too distant future. He will hit 20+ HR this season and can hit 30 IMO. And his glove is as good as Brooks Robinson's, the best defensive 3B in history. AJ is a slightly better than average CF at best.

I hear ya. You want to compare him to Brooks. Ok I'll by that. To me...

Manny reminds me of Ken Griffey Jr. One of the best payers IF he stays healthy. Machado will have a damn good career but he will always fight injuries, therefore he won't be what ppl are expecting.

[PA724_Oriole]

Just for the record I hope I'm wrong and he can stay healthy, and is able to stay a Oriole.

But if yall are right and he stays healthy, he wont be a O for long.

[Babypowder]

Mannys offensive approach is VERY similar to Jones.

What are Jones' limitations defensively?

He goes back on balls well, he comes in on balls well. He robs homers and I never witnessed miscommunication in the OF when he is on the field.

Other than Mannys platinum glove winning year, Jones had been just as good defensively.

It's not all that similar and its getting better. Manny walked almost twice as often as Jones in 2014 and it's trending in the right direction. He also had solid discipline in the minors. It's going to get better. Jones' plate discipline is right there with the worst in MLB. Jones has limited range. All the metrics agree on that. He has below average speed for a center fielder and his jumps and routes aren't always great. The Fielding Bible actually doesn't think he's very good at going back on balls. The numbers say he is average to slightly below for his career defensively. This year was the first time since 2009 the metrics liked his defense and DRS still only had him at plus 2 runs for the year. Manny has been well above average by the metrics since he came up. They are not on the same level defensively.