Is there any legitimate reason for Mike Mussina to go into the HOF as a Yankee instead of an Oriole?

[Odenton O]

I think my heart changed when I read up on what the Orioles did to BJ Surhoff, getting rid of him after he pleaded to stay because his daughter needed treatment at John Hopkins Hospital. Mussina stormed out of Surhoff's tearful press conference saying something to the effect of "I'm never playing for the Orioles again". There was a lot of stuff going on behind the scenes with those teams.

Yeah, I read the same thing years ago, and between that and the disparity in the offers he got, I don't hold anything against Mussina. And Moose was my favorite player on the O's back in those days. But I think he realized the whole organization was sinking, they were jerking their players around, and they didn't really give him any reason to stay. Hard to fault a guy for that.

[Redskins Rick]

Thanks for that history, TonyS. As you know, I've always felt it was Angelos' fault that Mussina got out of Baltimore, and that he totally jerked Mussina around in the negotiations. Mussina could have swallowed all that and chosen to stay, but I can't blame him for leaving and taking a better deal elsewhere, even in New York.

You know, if it was only the Ownership problems, then maybe he might have chosen to stay, but it was probably a lot of issues combining together that led to this decision.

[JLee2027]

Uh, no. Mike lived in PA. He paid PA taxes as it was his primary home. This is something people forget. NYC was 3 hours from where he grew up, where his off season home was. He could have rented in NYC during the season.

To summarize, baseball players are liable for tax to their state of residence as well as the state in which their team plays.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=12784

[Number5]

It's not the hall's choice. Frank chose Orioles despite just 6 years. Reggie Jackson only spent 5 years with the Yankees. It's up to the player.

Wrong.

It is the Hall's choice. It is not up to the player. As stated, the player can express a preference to the Hall, but it is the Hall's decision.

Wade Boggs wanted to be enshrined with a Tampa Bay hat. There is, of course, a Red Sox hat on his likeness.

In a case like Mussina's, I would guess that the player's preference might carry a lot of weight, since his playing time was not so overwhelmingly weighted to one team like Boggs' was, and he didn't win championships with any team.

[scOtt]

Look who won CY Young when he was pitching;

Clemens, Maddux, Johnson, Martinez, Schilling and Glavine

He pitched 4 one-hitters

11 times, he threw 200+ innings.

57 career complete games

23 Shutouts

He is 15th overall with K vs Walk ratio.

7 Gold Gloves, 8 Seasons with not a single error

82.7 bWAR and is 24th in MLB among pitchers.

He has a 123+ ERA.

.638 winning percentage, better than 4 current HOFers.

100 games over .500 in his career, 270-153. Rare company. PALMER was 268-152. I know Palmer had a TON more stuff on his resume, a lock, but Mike is definitely HOFer imo. Not first ballot but he'll definitely get in. I just hope it's not as an O.

[Can_of_corn]

100 games over .500 in his career, 270-153. Rare company. PALMER was 268-152. I know Palmer had a TON more stuff on his resume, a lock, but Mike is definitely HOFer imo. Not first ballot but he'll definitely get in. I just hope it's not as an O.

I don't like that argument since he was on very few bad teams in his career. He was on 3 100+ win Yankee teams and a couple really good O's teams.

[Frobby]

100 games over .500 in his career, 270-153. Rare company. PALMER was 268-152. I know Palmer had a TON more stuff on his resume, a lock, but Mike is definitely HOFer imo. Not first ballot but he'll definitely get in. I just hope it's not as an O.

So you'd rather he not go in as an O? Interesting.

[scOtt]

I don't like that argument since he was on very few bad teams in his career. He was on 3 100+ win Yankee teams and a couple really good O's teams.

I know, wins. Insignificant in itself. But when it's over hundreds of games it becomes significant.

I don't have a clue how to find it, but the list of 100 over pitchers in history would be an impressive list.

[scOtt]

So you'd rather he not go in as an O? Interesting.

No I don't. I don't even fault him for taking the Yankees money. Angelos tried to force him to sign a second team friendly contract. But still... He signed with the Skanks.

[Can_of_corn]

No I don't. I don't even fault him for taking the Yankees money. Angelos tried to force him to sign a second team friendly contract. But still... He signed with the Skanks.

The only issues I have with him are the Gammons stuff and that he made a public statement that he would give the O's a chance to match and went back on his word. (I don't think there is a chance that the O's would have matched)

[scOtt]

The only issues I have with him are the Gammons stuff and that he made a public statement that he would give the O's a chance to match and went back on his word. (I don't think there is a chance that the O's would have matched)

Another reason I don't want him as an O. That was a real snub to us. The straw that broke the camel's back for me.

[Can_of_corn]

Another reason I don't want him as an O. That was a real snub to us. The straw that broke the camel's back for me.

He was stupid for making the statement.

[Frobby]

I know, wins. Insignificant in itself. But when it's over hundreds of games it becomes significant.

I don't have a clue how to find it, but the list of 100 over pitchers in history would be an impressive list.

Here, take this Sporkle quiz. And yes, it is an impressive list -- only 20 pitchers have done it.

http://www.sporcle.com/games/notaratface/mlb-pitchers

[Moose Milligan]

"He won a lot of games" is a pretty important point. Not only that, he won a lot more than he lost. As to his ERA, you have to consider when he played. His 123 ERA+ would rank him right in the middle of Hall of Fame pitchers.

Dave Stieb's ERA+ was 122 and lead the league in ERA once, ERA+ twice (Mussina never did either), shutouts once. He just didn't pitch as long to rack up the career win totals. Should I be starting up the Dave Stieb HoF bandwagon?

I agree, he won a lot of games is an important point and he certainly won more than he lost. I just don't think he was one of the defining pitchers of his generation.

[TonySoprano]

The only issues I have with him are the Gammons stuff and that he made a public statement that he would give the O's a chance to match and went back on his word. (I don't think there is a chance that the O's would have matched)

The argument is he lied to a team that had lied to him when he signed his last team-friendly deal. O.K. Carry on.