Nats 2nd home game in new stadium: 20,497 fans

[Baroquen131]

I think what gets O's fans all fired up about the Nats and attendance is how the folks in DC said that they would have no problem drawing fans and needed their own team.

This is the issue that sticks in my mind. There was an attitude of entitlement about DC and a MLB ballclub. They deserved a team, even though a club had twice left the city and there were other comparable candidates for the relocation. Considering that attendance has been somewhat underwhelming for the team in recent years, I'll be interested in seeing how well the Nats draw in their new stadium. Yes, the same excuses that apply for the O's certainly apply for the DC club also, but if they don't pull in some big numbers later, in that new ballpark - it's a shame. While this region may be able to support two clubs, both teams are weaker because of it.

[dkdc]

This is the issue that sticks in my mind. There was an attitude of entitlement about DC and a MLB ballclub. They deserved a team, even though a club had twice left the city and there were other comparable candidates for the relocation.

I think that sense of entitlement came from the fact that there were no comparable candidates.

[b]2007 Pop Est	MSA[/b]5,306,565.00 	Washington-Arlington-Alexandria, DC-VA-MD-WV2,175,113.00 	Portland-Vancouver-Beaverton, OR-WA1,990,675.00 	San Antonio, TX1,836,333.00 	Las Vegas-Paradise, NV1,658,754.00 	Virginia Beach-Norfolk-Newport News, VA-NC1,651,568.00 	Charlotte-Gastonia-Concord, NC-SC

DC's population is almost as big as the next three candidates combined. Maybe DC's not a perfect baseball town, but with that kind of population advantage, it was a no-brainer.

[PeteU]

I guess my problem with Nationals fans is not that they have their own team. I think it's fine that DC gets its own team. DC is not a part of Baltimore, and frank Baltimore doesn't want to be any part of DC (a city which features in its very center about 1.5 square miles of fascinating culture and history, surrounded by many more square miles of nondescript urban decay and suburban sprawl). So if DC wants its own team to bolster its own identity, fine.

The problem with Nationals fans is that they tried to argue that DC was such a superior market for baseball to Baltimore, and supposedly had a great baseball history to it that no one else was ever aware of. I'm sorry, but one World Championship in 1924 and two teams that consistently drew flies before they left town (regardless of whatever spin DC fans attribute to the loss of those franchises) does not a great baseball city make. DC loves the Redskins and the Redskins only--the other teams only get attention when they win.

And then Nationals fans have the gall to insult Baltimore really on one basis alone: that we have an idiot owner. Point taken, but we also have a rich baseball history, a ballpark that is still one of the best in the majors, and a lot of civic pride.

Are the Nationals a threat to leave town? Certainly not. They've got a 30 year lease and unless something horrible goes wrong with the franchise (like what happened to their former incarnation, the Expos), they're there for the duration of the lease. And they'll probably draw mediocre (but not horrible) numbers most times, except when and if the Nationals compete, when there will be a modest bump in the numbers.

[PeteU]

I think that sense of entitlement came from the fact that there were no comparable candidates.

[b]2007 Pop Est	MSA[/b]5,306,565.00 	Washington-Arlington-Alexandria, DC-VA-MD-WV2,175,113.00 	Portland-Vancouver-Beaverton, OR-WA1,990,675.00 	San Antonio, TX1,836,333.00 	Las Vegas-Paradise, NV1,658,754.00 	Virginia Beach-Norfolk-Newport News, VA-NC1,651,568.00 	Charlotte-Gastonia-Concord, NC-SC

DC's population is almost as big as the next three candidates combined. Maybe DC's not a perfect baseball town, but with that kind of population advantage, it was a no-brainer.

Plus DC had a temporary stadium for baseball in RFK ready to go which was major league sized. None of the other candidates had that--the closest was Portlands AAA stadium, which seats 25,000 or the like.

[Mark Carver]

I think that sense of entitlement came from the fact that there were no comparable candidates.

[b]2007 Pop Est	MSA[/b]5,306,565.00 	Washington-Arlington-Alexandria, DC-VA-MD-WV2,175,113.00 	Portland-Vancouver-Beaverton, OR-WA1,990,675.00 	San Antonio, TX1,836,333.00 	Las Vegas-Paradise, NV1,658,754.00 	Virginia Beach-Norfolk-Newport News, VA-NC1,651,568.00 	Charlotte-Gastonia-Concord, NC-SC

DC's population is almost as big as the next three candidates combined. Maybe DC's not a perfect baseball town, but with that kind of population advantage, it was a no-brainer.

Well, there was always IMO, the NY metropolitan area and it's population of 19 million. But that wasn't gonna happen because Steinbrenner/Wilpon would have nothing to do with that...

[Goop]

I think that sense of entitlement came from the fact that there were no comparable candidates.

[b]2007 Pop Est	MSA[/b]5,306,565.00 	Washington-Arlington-Alexandria, DC-VA-MD-WV2,175,113.00 	Portland-Vancouver-Beaverton, OR-WA1,990,675.00 	San Antonio, TX1,836,333.00 	Las Vegas-Paradise, NV1,658,754.00 	Virginia Beach-Norfolk-Newport News, VA-NC1,651,568.00 	Charlotte-Gastonia-Concord, NC-SC

DC's population is almost as big as the next three candidates combined. Maybe DC's not a perfect baseball town, but with that kind of population advantage, it was a no-brainer.

It's interesting to see those numbers.

I remember when the Hampton Roads area was fighting for the Expos, I read or heard somewhere that the Hampton Roads area is the largest metropolitan area w/out a pro sports team. I guess that title actually goes to Las Vegas, but LV will eventually get some sort of pro team I would assume.

[BaltimoreTerp]

Well, to be fair a team in Charlotte would have Charlotte, the Raleigh area, and most of the area from southern Virginia to mid-South Carolina.

[DrungoHazewood]

I think that sense of entitlement came from the fact that there were no comparable candidates.

[b]2007 Pop Est	MSA[/b]5,306,565.00 	Washington-Arlington-Alexandria, DC-VA-MD-WV2,175,113.00 	Portland-Vancouver-Beaverton, OR-WA1,990,675.00 	San Antonio, TX1,836,333.00 	Las Vegas-Paradise, NV1,658,754.00 	Virginia Beach-Norfolk-Newport News, VA-NC1,651,568.00 	Charlotte-Gastonia-Concord, NC-SC

DC's population is almost as big as the next three candidates combined. Maybe DC's not a perfect baseball town, but with that kind of population advantage, it was a no-brainer.

[tangent]If baseball would just remove it's artificial territorial restrictions then all of those cities and more could support a major league team. Or two. New York, Chicago, LA, and Boston only have the limited number of teams they have because baseball won't allow them to have more, and never have. European soccer is a great test case for this - there's nothing stopping a team from building a stadium right across the street from the EPL's version of Yankee Stadium, putting together a team, and competing. The result of this is that London has dozens of professional teams, many competing at the highest levels. No team can monopolize on a giant metropolitan area, the markets are split many ways, so teams from moderate-sized cities can compete.[/tangent]

[NewMarketSean]

[tangent]If baseball would just remove it's artificial territorial restrictions then all of those cities and more could support a major league team. Or two. New York, Chicago, LA, and Boston only have the limited number of teams they have because baseball won't allow them to have more, and never have. European soccer is a great test case for this - there's nothing stopping a team from building a stadium right across the street from the EPL's version of Yankee Stadium, putting together a team, and competing. The result of this is that London has dozens of professional teams, many competing at the highest levels. No team can monopolize on a giant metropolitan area, the markets are split many ways, so teams from moderate-sized cities can compete.[/tangent]

I know I have gotten on you for bringing soccer into a baseball discussion but I don't see many fans, especially fans in these big cities, changing their rooting preferences just because a second or third team is now playing in their city.

For example, do you think Johnny Yankee or Red Sox fan is going to care that a new team is in NYC or Boston? They might follow them from a distance, but will they support them the way they do their original teams? Especially when expansion teams are likely to be bad for 5-10 years?

[RShack]

I know I have gotten on you for bringing soccer into a baseball discussion but I don't see many fans, especially fans in these big cities, changing their rooting preferences just because a second or third team is now playing in their city.

For example, do you think Johnny Yankee or Red Sox fan is going to care that a new team is in NYC or Boston? They might follow them from a distance, but will they support them the way they do their original teams? Especially when expansion teams are likely to be bad for 5-10 years?

If the New Jersey Goomba's played in the Meadowlands, they'd have a huge following. The MFY's and Mets would hate it. Personally, I think that's where the Rays belong.

[BaltimoreTerp]

If the New Jersey Goomba's played in the Meadowlands, they'd have a huge following. The MFY's and Mets would hate it. Personally, I think that's where the Rays belong.

Or Long Island 'Burbs. Or Red Bank Mallrats. Or Hartford Whalers (the Whale!).

Hell, Hartford would be an interesting place, taking away both Boston and Yankee/Met fans (and has the historical value of being an original NL team in 1976 )

[PeteU]

If the New Jersey Goomba's played in the Meadowlands, they'd have a huge following. The MFY's and Mets would hate it. Personally, I think that's where the Rays belong.

Are you kidding me?

People in New Jersey who have grown up Mets fans or Yankees fans all their life, their father was a Mets/Yankees fan, their grandfather was a Mets/Yankees fan.

Along comes the East Rutherford Third Wheels to play at the Meadowlands, and all of a sudden those fans are simply going to drop their allegiances and root for the new team? Come on....

A not-quite perfect analogy, but say for the sake of argument Towson (I know, stop laughing, this is all hypothetical mind you) magically gets awarded an expansion or relocated franchise by MLB. Are Orioles fans in Baltimore County or points north and west of the city going to abandon years of allegiance to the Orioles just for that?

[BaltimoreTerp]

Are you kidding me?

People in New Jersey who have grown up Mets fans or Yankees fans all their life, their father was a Mets/Yankees fan, their grandfather was a Mets/Yankees fan.

Along comes the East Rutherford Third Wheels to play at the Meadowlands, and all of a sudden those fans are simply going to drop their allegiances and root for the new team? Come on....

A not-quite perfect analogy, but say for the sake of argument Towson (I know, stop laughing, this is all hypothetical mind you) magically gets awarded an expansion or relocated franchise by MLB. Are Orioles fans in Baltimore County or points north and west of the city going to abandon years of allegiance to the Orioles just for that?

What about the Knicks fans when the Nets came to Jersey? Rangers fans to the Devils (and Islanders!)? Giants fans to the Jets?

Orioles fans to Nationals?

People root for teams in their area.

If Baltimore got an NBA team, would the Wizards fans in the area not switch allegiances?

[DrungoHazewood]

What about the Knicks fans when the Nets came to Jersey? Rangers fans to the Devils (and Islanders!)? Giants fans to the Jets?

Orioles fans to Nationals?

People root for teams in their area.

If Baltimore got an NBA team, would the Wizards fans in the area not switch allegiances?

That's exactly right. There are 20 million people in New York, plus more in New Jersey. How many of them are die hard Yanks or Mets fans? How many of them are actually from somewhere else? It doesn't take a very high percentage of the metropolitan area to become New Jersey Turnpikers fans to have as many as the Cincy or Milwaukee or KC or even Baltimore metro areas.

[Pedro Cerrano]

What about the Knicks fans when the Nets came to Jersey? Rangers fans to the Devils (and Islanders!)? Giants fans to the Jets?

Orioles fans to Nationals?

People root for teams in their area.

If Baltimore got an NBA team, would the Wizards fans in the area not switch allegiances?

I know I wouldn't. In fact, as much as it pains me to say, the Baltimore team would probably be a Wizards' rival and I'd have to root against them.