PED Suspensions Coming

[WEAVERMAN]

18 hours ago, Dark Helmet said:

Another reason I'd be leary of a long Machado deal. He's gotten noticeably bigger and stronger at a quick pace. That and his friendship with A-roid.

Nonsense.  A man gets bigger from 19 years old to 24 years old.  In addition to his workout routine.  He's innocent until proven otherwise.

[Dark Helmet]

1 hour ago, WEAVERMAN said:

Nonsense.  A man gets bigger from 19 years old to 24 years old.  In addition to his workout routine.  He's innocent until proven otherwise.

Yeah, Arod got pretty big from 19-24 also. Obviously he never used during those years. And I never said Manny was guilty. I said I'd be leary of a long contract (meaning 10 years or more).

[Moose Milligan]

6 hours ago, Camden_yardbird said:

Perspective of a secondary pirate fan:  I am a pirate fan through marriage, I actively root for them, and my wife and I fight over which game is on any given night.

I am really disappointed about Marte, and in truth really disappointed for him.  He has become a truly dynamic player, and I think his PED use is more about the weight of expectations than anything else.  

Its not about a contract.  Marte has a contract.  It's team friendly but it pays him quite a bit and it runs through 2021.

When Pittsburgh announced that it would move it's cornerstone player, Andrew McCutchen, from center field to make room for Marte, it didn't go unnoticed by the fans, the Pittsburgh media, or I am sure the players on the team.  It was a passing of the baton on some ways.  It was noticeable in off-season reports, spring training and the early season that Marte was making a bigger effort to be a leader on the team.  After a particularly solid game this year the field reported grabbed Marte and interviewed him.  Me and my wife looked at each other and said "have you ever seen him interviewed?"  They mentioned on the telecast that it was his first ever interview without an interpreter in his career and that he had been making a bigger effort to learn English this past off season.  The interview seemed genuine, not filled with normal cliches, and you could get a sense that he was trying to be more of a leader.

I don't k ow what lead him to use PEDs, or why, but in trying to see the better of the situation I really believe he got caught up on expectations.

As a side note, I also wonder what effect if any the WBC had on this.  Marte played for the DR, where nationalist pride in the game a the culture is very different as some have pointed out.  It also has visibly taken an effect on some players as it requires a higher sustained level of effort which could lead to the use of PEDs as a pick me up.

Are you more upset about the fact that you thought Marte was a good dude and now he's a known cheater?  Or are you more upset that your 2nd favorite team is without a really good player for 80 games? 

[Tryptamine]

I'm at the point where I simply don't care anymore. Clemens, Bonds, etc should be in the HoF, put an asterisk if you want for known abusers. Keep doing what they're doing with the suspensions, but the current rule that lets a player come back from a suspension and then play in the regular season but not the playoffs is ridiculous. If you're so worried about the supposed cheater having an effect on the playoffs, then they shouldn't be back in the regular season either because I'm sure they're going to play in games that have an effect on who makes or misses the playoffs. Just really sick of people pretending like we have any idea when players started using enhancers, or how much the enhancers actually helped them, or that greenies are some how less cheating than steroids because our old timey baseball heroes couldn't possibly be as vile as Barry Bonds. It's all the same thing.

[weams]

4 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

Are you more upset about the fact that you thought Marte was a good dude and now he's a known cheater?  Or are you more upset that your 2nd favorite team is without a really good player for 80 games? 

See here's the deal. Marte was not good enough without the Eastern European Weight Lifter Juice. Not Good Enough. 

[Dark Helmet]

3 hours ago, Tryptamine said:

I'm at the point where I simply don't care anymore. Clemens, Bonds, etc should be in the HoF, put an asterisk if you want for known abusers. Keep doing what they're doing with the suspensions, but the current rule that lets a player come back from a suspension and then play in the regular season but not the playoffs is ridiculous. If you're so worried about the supposed cheater having an effect on the playoffs, then they shouldn't be back in the regular season either because I'm sure they're going to play in games that have an effect on who makes or misses the playoffs. Just really sick of people pretending like we have any idea when players started using enhancers, or how much the enhancers actually helped them, or that greenies are some how less cheating than steroids because our old timey baseball heroes couldn't possibly be as vile as Barry Bonds. It's all the same thing.

I agree. Bonds was a HOF either way. Lots of guys used that never got caught. 

[weams]

3 hours ago, Tryptamine said:

I'm at the point where I simply don't care anymore. Clemens, Bonds, etc should be in the HoF, put an asterisk if you want for known abusers. Keep doing what they're doing with the suspensions, but the current rule that lets a player come back from a suspension and then play in the regular season but not the playoffs is ridiculous. If you're so worried about the supposed cheater having an effect on the playoffs, then they shouldn't be back in the regular season either because I'm sure they're going to play in games that have an effect on who makes or misses the playoffs. Just really sick of people pretending like we have any idea when players started using enhancers, or how much the enhancers actually helped them, or that greenies are some how less cheating than steroids because our old timey baseball heroes couldn't possibly be as vile as Barry Bonds. It's all the same thing.

I'm sure you don't. But I do. I don't care if you put those cheaters in the Hall. Do it. But they are cheaters. Just Like Sammy Was. 

[El Gordo]

46 minutes ago, weams said:

I'm sure you don't. But I do. I don't care if you put those cheaters in the Hall. Do it. But they are cheaters. Just Like Sammy Was. 

Any body how did Roids before 1990 wasn't cheating because they weren't outlawed by the government or MLB.

[weams]

12 minutes ago, El Gordo said:

Any body how did Roids before 1990 wasn't cheating because they weren't outlawed by the government or MLB.

I was responding to a post about Clemons and Bonds and their superiority if they had played clean. And boredom with folks like myself who will never honor them properly. Actually, one that was directed smugly at fans like myself. 

[Tryptamine]

1 hour ago, weams said:

I'm sure you don't. But I do. I don't care if you put those cheaters in the Hall. Do it. But they are cheaters. Just Like Sammy Was. 

Why single those guys outs? Are we going to remove Hank Aaron? He admitted to using amphetamines. The simple truth is this, you can't have a hall of fame when you leave out the guys who had some of the biggest impacts ever on the game. It's not the hall of morality, it's the hall of fame. You want a plaque next to them about how they were caught doing such and such, that's fine, but to just pretend they didn't exist is akin to an ostrich sticking its head in the sand.

[weams]

4 minutes ago, Tryptamine said:

Why single those guys outs? Are we going to remove Hank Aaron? He admitted to using amphetamines. The simple truth is this, you can't have a hall of fame when you leave out the guys who had some of the biggest impacts ever on the game. It's not the hall of morality, it's the hall of fame. You want a plaque next to them about how they were caught doing such and such, that's fine, but to just pretend they didn't exist is akin to an ostrich sticking its head in the sand.

I am talking only the PED ERA.  When they were banned, and illegal. I've heard your sentiment from so many folks. It's not original, and it does not change mine. 

As I said, put them in if YOU want to. I don't care now that you have started anyway. There are several abusers in. Hank Aaron is a heck of a human. Not something anyone would say about Barry or Rog. 

[Moose Milligan]

1 hour ago, weams said:

See here's the deal. Marte was not good enough without the Eastern European Weight Lifter Juice. Not Good Enough. 

Are you sure about that?  Is there any definite measure as to how much it added to his production?

[weams]

7 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Are you sure about that?  Is there any definite measure as to how much it added to his production?

Yeah, I'm sure. I'm cool if you are not.

 

[Moose Milligan]

1 minute ago, weams said:

Yeah, I'm sure. I'm cool if you are not.

 

Well I know you're cool.  You're always cool.

But I'd like for you to share the evidence that Marte wasn't much of a player before he started the juicing.  I do believe Barry, Roger, A-Rod were all quite capable before they started juicing.  In Barry and Roger's case, they were able to do extraordinary things into their late 30s and early 40s.  A-Rod probably enhanced what was already looking to be a HoF bound career.  

[weams]

1 minute ago, Moose Milligan said:

Well I know you're cool.  You're always cool.

But I'd like for you to share the evidence that Marte wasn't much of a player before he started the juicing.  I do believe Barry, Roger, A-Rod were all quite capable before they started juicing.  In Barry and Roger's case, they were able to do extraordinary things into their late 30s and early 40s.  A-Rod probably enhanced what was already looking to be a HoF bound career.  

Marte was not using a designer drug. He was using the mass building stuff. As have many of the Dominicans. So as are many of the MLB players I have seen respond to his use, I am a bit angry that he was able to parley his chemical romance into the esteem and money and position that he did.

As you know, I loved Cruz, and he's a PED user. So it's not like I think all players that use stink all together.

I think the guys who use the stuff that masques well or easily probably have better skills than the Jay Gibbons of the world. And you know, for every one of the 800 jobs that the Horse Hormone Users take up, a kid that is close misses out.