O's Ownership deserves some credit

[wildcard]

I know this may be an unpopular thread but I have to call them the way I see them.

Over the past 5 years O's Ownership have raised payroll continuously.

Beginning of the year payroll according to COTS Contracts.

2012 - 84m

2013 - 92m

2014 - 107m

2015 - 118m

2016 - 148m

In 2016 O's Ownership added 30m to the payroll. That is something special to me as an O's fan.

The O's just added 3.3m more to that at the trade deadline when adding Peace and Miley and subtracting Despaigne who will certainly be optioned and one of Wilson, Givens or Ondrusek. Sounds like the O's are still on the hook for all of Roe's 720K salary.

And they are doing this while attendance is falling.

2014 - 30.8K per game

2015 - 29.4K per game

2016 - 26.9K per game

Looks to me like O's Ownership wants to go to the playoffs and win. They are putting their money where their mouth is and I for one give them credit for it.

[weams]

The attendance is not coming back. He'll need to deal with the new world order.

[Machado13]

The attendance is not coming back. He'll need to deal with the new world order.

Yup. It's all about the TV deals now anyway.

Angelos has only himself to blame for the attendance dynamic. Now he is forced to put a competitive product on the field to hold strong in the DMV vis-a-vis the nats.

[sportsfan8703]

I just hope we win so we can sustain this. Some promotions would be huge. They need to do some chasing playoff themed promotions.

[LookitsPuck]

Props to the OP.

This is why I can get bent out of shape if people keep whining about ownership not spending money. Truth be told payroll has went up every year. They're in top 10 this year. They're taking on MORE salary right now in guys like Miley all the while keeping Ubaldo on the roster.

At some point people need to realize that aside from scenarios like Davis where Angelos really wanted that player, the majority of the budget and player acquisition comes down to Duquette not Angelos. Angelos just stamps approve/not.

[Frobby]

While I don't disagree with the OP, it needs to be pointed out that the average payroll has gone up by a large amount since 2012, largely due to the new TV deal and growing revenue from MLBAM. The Orioles' position relative to the league is up, but median payroll was up $30 mm or so from 2012 to 2015, with final figures from 2016 still to come.

Also, I suspect ticket revenue is up this year, even though attendance is down, due to price hikes last offseason.

All that said, I have no problem with the amount allocated to payroll the last several years. We should be able to build a winning team at that payroll, and we have.

[Aristotelian]

The attendance is not coming back. He'll need to deal with the new world order.

I am curious why you say this. What is different now from 2014?

[TradeAngelos]

While I don't disagree with the OP, it needs to be pointed out that the average payroll has gone up by a large amount since 2012, largely due to the new TV deal and growing revenue from MLBAM. The Orioles' position relative to the league is up, but median payroll was up $30 mm or so from 2012 to 2015, with final figures from 2016 still to come.

Also, I suspect ticket revenue is up this year, even though attendance is down, due to price hikes last offseason.

All that said, I have no problem with the amount allocated to payroll the last several years. We should be able to build a winning team at that payroll, and we have.

That and we are basing the 146m of of bad bbref numbers, counting Miley's full salary for the year and counting all the deferred money this year, when we aren't paying it this year.

It is more like 137m, and as you said if you look at the overall payroll situation around MLB it is nothing out of the ordinary. When teams are making money hand over fist payrolls rise. Duh.

It is fascinating that we are trying to prop up the owner who for years had below average payrolls, and a completely inept organization in almost every way possible while losing for 15 years, and we tear the guy who built a winner out of that complete mess and with the "limitations" of ownership, at every turn.

The irony there is mind boggling, and quite frightening to be quite honest.

But yeah good job Pete for acting like a responsible baseball owner for once in your life and sharing just a tiny fraction of the hundreds of millions you have made off MASN, or the billion you have made off the value of the team.

[OFFNY]

That and we are basing the 146m of of bad bbref numbers, counting Miley's full salary for the year and counting all the deferred money this year, when we aren't paying it this year.

It is more like 137m, and as you said if you look at the overall payroll situation around MLB it is nothing out of the ordinary. When teams are making money hand over fist payrolls rise. Duh.

It is fascinating that we are trying to prop up the owner who for years had below average payrolls, and a completely inept organization in almost every way possible while losing for 15 years, and we tear the guy who built a winner out of that complete mess and with the "limitations" of ownership, at every turn.

The irony there is mind boggling, and quite frightening to be quite honest.

But yeah good job Pete for acting like a responsible baseball owner for once in your life and sharing just a tiny fraction of the hundreds of millions you have made off MASN, or the billion you have made off the value of the team.

14 years.

[BradyBunch]

I am curious why you say this. What is different now from 2014?

Because the money driver in baseball is now 100% TV revenue thanks to the MASN fight. Small market teams will get higher TV deals because of it. It'll be less and less about going to the game and that's what MLB is pushing for.

[TINSTAAPP]

I'm going to give them credit when they sign Machado to a long-term extension.

[wildcard]

While I don't disagree with the OP, it needs to be pointed out that the average payroll has gone up by a large amount since 2012, largely due to the new TV deal and growing revenue from MLBAM. The Orioles' position relative to the league is up, but median payroll was up $30 mm or so from 2012 to 2015, with final figures from 2016 still to come.

Also, I suspect ticket revenue is up this year, even though attendance is down, due to price hikes last offseason.

All that said, I have no problem with the amount allocated to payroll the last several years. We should be able to build a winning team at that payroll, and we have.

Interesting that the league is up 30m average from 2012-2016. The O's are up 67m from 2012 to now. 84m to 151m.

[wildcard]

That and we are basing the 146m of of bad bbref numbers, counting Miley's full salary for the year and counting all the deferred money this year, when we aren't paying it this year.

It is more like 137m, and as you said if you look at the overall payroll situation around MLB it is nothing out of the ordinary. When teams are making money hand over fist payrolls rise. Duh.

It is fascinating that we are trying to prop up the owner who for years had below average payrolls, and a completely inept organization in almost every way possible while losing for 15 years, and we tear the guy who built a winner out of that complete mess and with the "limitations" of ownership, at every turn.

The irony there is mind boggling, and quite frightening to be quite honest.

But yeah good job Pete for acting like a responsible baseball owner for once in your life and sharing just a tiny fraction of the hundreds of millions you have made off MASN, or the billion you have made off the value of the team.

Sorry but I don't agree. I follow the O's payroll pretty closely and I don't included full salary of players salaries that the O's trade for. Here are my numbers based mostly on the information in Cots Contracts.

Though the amount the O's are paying out after deferrals is close to the 137m you mention, the amount that the player have earned including the deferral is over 150m. Notice that I don't have numbers for Duensing, Despaigne and Ondrusek because those numbers have not been release yet.

As far as propping up Peter, I was dismayed for years that the O's salaries were low but I think we have to be realistic about what Peter is spending now. Facts are facts.

2016 Payroll Estimate

1) 23m Davis – 1B

2) 16m Jones – CF

3) 15.8m Wieters – C

4) 13m Jimenez - SP1

5) 12.5m Hardy – SS

6) 9.15m Trumbo –RF/DH/1B

7) 9m Gallardo – SP2

8) 6.75m Britton – RP1

9) 6.225m Tillman – SP3

10) 6m O’Day – RP

11) 5.75m P Alvarez – DH

12) 5m Machado - 3B -option

13) 2.8m Kim – LF

14) 2.6m Worley – RP2

15) 2.066m Miley -SP (prorated 6m salary)

16) 1.8m Bundy – RP3 (Starter/RP)

17) 1.583m Pearce - OF/DH/1B (prorated 4.75 salary)

18) 1.5m Flaherty – UIF/COF -option

19) 1.3m Reimold – OF

20) 1.254m Gonzalez (released)

21) 1.02m Matusz (prorated 3.9m salary, 48 days)(traded to Atl)

22) 1.25m Brach – RP4

23) .72m Roe RP5 (DFA’d)

24) .664m Janish (prorated .800m salary, 152 days) (guess) (outrighted)

25) .532m Gausman – SP4 –option

26) .5235m Joseph - BC –option

27) .5225m Schoop - 2B -option

28) .5115m Givens – RP6 –option

29) .51m Phillips – (outrighted to AAA)*

30) .5075m Rickard – OF (DL)

31) .248m Wilson (prorated .5115m, 89) - option

32) .206m Wright – optioned (prorated .5105m salary, 74)

33) .162m McFarland RP (prorated .5235m salary, 50 days) option (DL)

34) .114M Paredes – (prorated .52m salary) (DFA’d to Jays)

35) .086m Pena C (prorated .509m salary, 31) optioned

36) .028m Drake RP (prorated .5095 salary. 10) optioned

37) .027m Hart RP (prorated .5075 salary, 10)- optioned

38) .024m D. Alvarez OF (prorated portion .5075, 9)– optioned

39) .022m Tolliver RP (prorated .5075m salary, 8) optioned

40) .022m Borbon OF (prorated .5075m salary, 8) (DFA’d)

41) .011M Aquino RP (prorated portion .5075, 4) - optioned

42) .008m Garcia – RP (prorated .5075m salary. 3)- optioned

43) .005m Miranda (prorated .5075m salary, 2) (traded to SEA)

44) XXXm Duensing RP (60 day DL)

45) XXXm Despaigne RP7 – option

46) XXXm Ondrusek RP -option

Sub Total 150.282m of earned salary(*not included)

Minus 6m deferred from Davis

Minus 2.25m deferred from Jimenez

Minus 2.5m deferred from Gallardo

Minus 2.2m deferred from Hardy(best guess)

Minus 1M deferred from O’Day

Plus 1.5m pays deferred to Vladimir Guerrero

Subtotal -12.45m

Total 137.832m salaries to be paid in 2016 (*not included)

*Major league salary on minor league contract.

.51m (Phillips)

Grand total 138.342m

[BradyBunch]

That and we are basing the 146m of of bad bbref numbers, counting Miley's full salary for the year and counting all the deferred money this year, when we aren't paying it this year.

It is more like 137m, and as you said if you look at the overall payroll situation around MLB it is nothing out of the ordinary. When teams are making money hand over fist payrolls rise. Duh.

It is fascinating that we are trying to prop up the owner who for years had below average payrolls, and a completely inept organization in almost every way possible while losing for 15 years, and we tear the guy who built a winner out of that complete mess and with the "limitations" of ownership, at every turn.

The irony there is mind boggling, and quite frightening to be quite honest.

But yeah good job Pete for acting like a responsible baseball owner for once in your life and sharing just a tiny fraction of the hundreds of millions you have made off MASN, or the billion you have made off the value of the team.

Orioles payroll for it's 40man is $155m, right now counting the $4m the Orioles are on for with Miley, Pearce and defered.

We are told there is roughly $365m in partnership profits for the Orioles side of ownership of MASN and I STRESS the Orioles have several partners. So that $365.8m is either put back into the team or split between ownership or mix of the two. Clancy estate and his ex-wife's 24% equals about $88m of that $365m. Now what does Barry Levinson do with his share? Pam Shriver? And so on? That's what you always miss when you go on your tirades.

Maybe be they reinvest every single penny to paying off the upfront costs of MASN that MLB didn't cover from 2007-2012. Maybe after that they decided to do a 50/50 split on taking payout and investing in the Club since 2012 which included Orioles being liabile for any future costs and maintaining Ed Smith stadium (Sarasota has no costs with the facility anymore). Then the Orioles giving free commerical time on MASN and promoting Sarasota as part of the agreement. Then covering legal cost over MASN.

Have you ever thought of this scenerio? Probably not. Just cause something has $365m number to it.. doesn't mean that $365m hasn't been spent or used in different manners then what you want.

Also nobody has made a billion off the Orioles valuation and that valuation includes MASN being involved. You don't make money on the valuation until you sell and that total you make is based on the % you own. So for example if Clancy and ex-wife portion was sold, they'd make $240m of the $1b.

[Rojo13]

I just hope we win so we can sustain this. Some promotions would be huge. They need to do some chasing playoff themed promotions.

Does anyone know why they do promotions of the weekend? WEekend games always draw well. If I was them, I'd do a bobblehead on a Tuesday night.

It is concerning to me that attendance is down several years in a row and particularly this year despite the team being in first all year.

Payroll has gone up a lot, but we still were cheap with Miguel Gonzalez who had options. I would have rather kept him around since he had options and never bothered to pay Matusz a penny.

We may be spending money but not necessarily wisely. The thing that scares me is the Davis deal. Can someone tell me why he costs $23 million a year when Pearce - who led the team in WAR in 2014 - can be had for basically nothing. Trumbo barely cost anything as well. I'd rather have Pearce at 4-5 million and the extra 18 million on a TOR.