Is it Duquette or Angelos to blame here?

[thezeroes]

I have found that the two camps on Dan Duquette and Peter Angelos can never find a common ground. When we lose, it is Dan and Peter's fault. When we WIN it is Bucks strategy and the players ability. So the 67 Wins are in spite of Dan Duquette and Peter Angelos but ALL of the 54 Losses can be pinned on the duo.

[eddie83]

I get your point, but you are underappreciating what it took for Cashman to talk ownership into being willing to make those trades. That's a huge deal, and did the lion's share of the work in setting the organization up for the next ten years.

Cashman inherited the core players and kept winning due to the Steinbrenner's checkbook. He has been there close to 20 years and developed next to nothing in young talent until now.

[eddie83]

Nobody is to blame here, we all get a prize for participation. The OH lovechild in DD is safe and El Gordo and others can continue to make smug comments crediting theirselves for being right all along. Because at the OH, they knew all along but their sensitive ears just can't take the criticisms. It makes their eyes hurt reading the truth. But at the end of the day, they are always right and different opinions never tolerated.

Yes, people just like to complain. Poor DD has had little to work with in his budget. A mere $30 million or so for starting pitching-maybe he should have been pan handling for starting pitching. Poor guy has it so hard. It isn't his fault. Leave him alone.

My only point is this. The owner dictates the international spending not DD and he isn't going to go after a number 1 pitcher. The money allotted to Ubaldo and Gallardo would not be allowed by ownership to be combined and go after 1 top notch starter, it doesn't work that way.

DD has been here 5 years and the fact that the system is in the shake it is in his responsibility.

[Stotle]

Cashman inherited the core players and kept winning due to the Steinbrenner's checkbook. He has been there close to 20 years and developed next to nothing in young talent until now.

If you think think the Yankees' failure to focus on draft and development in the past is Cashman's doing you have no understanding of how that org has been run or how Cashman would prefer to operate.

[hoosiers]

I have found that the two camps on Dan Duquette and Peter Angelos can never find a common ground. When we lose, it is Dan and Peter's fault. When we WIN it is Bucks strategy and the players ability. So the 67 Wins are in spite of Dan Duquette and Peter Angelos but ALL of the 54 Losses can be pinned on the duo.

I think you have to ask yourself if the team's competitive position this offseason warranted the FO's decisions to re-sign Davis instead of letting him go for a top pick, re-sign Matusz (and later trade him away for a top pick) and sign Gallardo to forfeit a top pick with no thought of dealing Britton.

If we beat our projections and still miss the playoffs, I think it is a fair question of whether the cost was worth it, whether the FO made good decisions or not or accurately assessed our competitive position or not.

[eddie83]

If you think think the Yankees' failure to focus on draft and development in the past is Cashman's doing you have no understanding of how that org has been run or how Cashman would prefer to operate.

May be true but I can't give him much credit for the last 15 years. Any competent GM should be successful. The trades he made this year were mainly FA's that only his team can continue to afford. Only point is he road the coat tails of Gene Michael and being a big market team.

[El Gordo]

If you think think the Yankees' failure to focus on draft and development in the past is Cashman's doing you have no understanding of how that org has been run or how Cashman would prefer to operate.

But of course DD's failure to do so is all on him because he has such willing ownership to deal with? Under PA when was the last time we signed a big money SP, a top DR prospect, posted for and signed a NPB star, signed a big Cuban player, offered an opt out, or a lowed a player to be signed over the recommendations of his medical people? And how often has he insisted on throwing money at players he likes and feels are fan favorites regardless of the wisdom of doing so? Any GM that has worked for him has to be given a mulligan IMO, because of his history of intransigence.

[Stotle]

May be true but I can't give him much credit for the last 15 years. Any competent GM should be successful. The trades he made this year were mainly FA's that only his team can continue to afford. Only point is he road the coat tails of Gene Michael and being a big market team.

I think there are a lot of baseball folks that would disagree, but I understand what your arguing.

[Ori-Al]

DD is often a poor judge of starting pitchers, and he seems to ignore stats. In their free agent years, when players are looking to do quite well to attract suitors, Ubaldo had a decent half season, but overall not a good one. Gallardo's numbers were trending downward the second half of his season. Didn't stop DD from signing them for $13 mil per season.

As for Miley, he had an ERA near 5 pitching half his games in a pitcher's park. Traded for him, anyway.

[hoosiers]

If you think think the Yankees' failure to focus on draft and development in the past is Cashman's doing you have no understanding of how that org has been run or how Cashman would prefer to operate.

So what is Cashman responsible for?

If not the farm, not the big FA signings, what? The bullpen? The NYY have put a flawed team in the field for most of the past five years with little farm support. What does Cashman do?

[El Gordo]

I think you have to ask yourself if the team's competitive position this offseason warranted the FO's decisions to re-sign Davis instead of letting him go for a top pick, re-sign Matusz (and later trade him away for a top pick) and sign Gallardo to forfeit a top pick with no thought of dealing Britton.

If we beat our projections and still miss the playoffs, I think it is a fair question of whether the cost was worth it, whether the FO made good decisions or not or accurately assessed our competitive position or not.

Do you really believe Dan wanted to sign Davis to 161 M? Or that Gallardo was his top choice for SP? Or that PA Accepted that signing in spite of the medical people recommending not to?

[Stotle]

Bit of course DD's failure to do so is all on him because he has such willing ownership to deal with? Under PA when was the last time we signed a big money SP, a top DR prospect, posted for and signed a NPB star, signed a big Cuban player, offered an opt out, or a lowed a player to be signed over the recommendations of his medical people? And how often has he insisted on throwing money at players he likes and feels are fan favorites regardless of the wisdom of doing so? Any GM that has worked for him has to be given a mulligan IMO, because of his history of intransigence.

Not at all. I think DD is operating with plenty of restrictions. They just don't account for all the points hoosier is making. Ownership definitely impacts what he can and cannot do.

[eddie83]

I think there are a lot of baseball folks that would disagree, but I understand what your arguing.

I am not saying that Cashman can't be a good GM in another market but the fact is he has never had to be that kind of a GM. No question ownership dictates what he can and can't do but so does Angelos in Baltimore. Cashman has unlimited financial resources that Dan doesn't have.

[Stotle]

So what is Cashman responsible for?

If not the farm, not the big FA signings, what? The bullpen? The NYY have put a flawed team in the field for most of the past five years with little farm support. What does Cashman do?

I think he's responsible for everything. He can leave if he doesn't like working under ownership's supervision. Same with Duquette. My point was the critique that he is not capable of developing young talent is a bit silly.

[El Gordo]

So what is Cashman responsible for?

If not the farm, not the big FA signings, what? The bullpen? The NYY have put a flawed team in the field for most of the past five years with little farm support. What does Cashman do?

Pretty much the bidding of ownership like most GM's.