Is it Duquette or Angelos to blame here?

[Stotle]

If that stuff was better, the proof would be in the K/9 and H/9.

I have seen both pitch at age 18 with my face pressed up against the backstop. How 'bout you?

[markakis8]

Then you must be busting a gut when scouts compare him to Pedro Martinez.

http://www.sportingnews.com/mlb/news/new-padre-anderson-espinoza-already-compared-to-pedro-martinez/1jhv3lz2h0g0z1xeky0h17iav6

Minor league statistics don't really mean that much, especially when a player is so young. One of my best friends was drafted 34th overall and had a 10.89 ERA over 14 starts in his first season. Three years later he was in the majors (although injury quickly derailed his career). By the same token, lots of guys rack up great stats in the minors and just aren't big league material.

When scouts assess a player, statistics mean nothing. GMs aren't going to put much stock in them either. They're going to trust their scouts and their eyes. It's not fantasy baseball. Anderson Espinoza was the top international pitching prospect when the Red Sox signed him at 16. Baseball America had him rated as the No. 19 prospect in all of baseball this year (everybody had him in their Top 100). According to the scouts, he has a fastball that sits in the upper 90s, an above average (and at times plus) change and curve (kind of amazing for an 18 year old) and an easy delivery. The link I provided isn't the only one that compares him to Pedro.

The Orioles have nobody like that. The Orioles don't have a prospect that anybody thinks is worthy of the top 100. They have a few guys with nice stats, but nobody with the sort of potential it takes to pull off such a deal. You can't just throw a bunch of guys you think you can do without out there and get somebody to give you back anyone very good in a trade.

No personal offense to your friend but unless he was a highly sought after prospect (like top 2-3 arms of that particular year) than your point is moot. I don't care who that guy is compared to. Maybe he'll figure it out, maybe he won't but his minor league #'s stink. Jose Fernandez #'s at the same age, they were dominant. So the comparison is stupid.

How did Christian Marrero fare out? He was the next Albert Pujols.

[markakis8]

The question in the OP is more than a little comical to me.

DD has built a team with a payroll larger than most Os fans could have dreamed of, has forfeited draft picks for Gallardo and Jimenez, has dealt away draft picks early in two different seasons to shed relievers he acquired or put on the team, dealt away JakeA, EdRod, and mid-season top 25 prospect Josh Hader, has spent the least amount internationally in his term than all but perhaps five franchises and, oh by the way, inherited from his predecessor an all-star CF, an all-star closer, an all-star 1B and a top five player in all of MLB, plus our starting SS and 2B!

Hey, kudos to our GM for currently having us in the race and in position for a playoff spot, but I think a majority of teams could start from a given point in time and forfeit or trade the draft picks and talent we have given up while also ramping up the payroll and find itself in a competitive position. A comfortable majority of GMs wouldn't have had to burn down the farm system to get to this point and THAT is why we find ourselves in a playoff race with teams that have significantly more minor league talent than we do to either call up and perform or trade for top talent. It is kind of interesting that the same GM who gave up a pick for the non-performing Jimenez also gave up a pick for the non-performing Gallardo when pretty much every other GM in the game stayed away. It is unbelievable that the team finds itself in a competitive position despite the poor performance and wasted investment in those two.

The Nats can call up Lopez and Turner and NOT trade away Fedde, Robles and other. The Sox can call up Benintendo and deal for Pomeranz while holding onto Betts, waiting for Bradley Jr to develop. The Jays deal for Tulo and Price last year and let Price go and are now ahead of us again.

I could go on, but am dumbfounded that folks even suggest blame lay at the feet of Angelos relative to DD. Hopefully, the team can get to the finish line in its current position or better, but it doesn't feel like a team (or overall organization talent) with a lot in the tank for this stretch run or a team ready to compete again in 2017 and beyond.

It was a genuine question. Did Angelos interfere in trading for a top notch starter or was Duquette lazy again? I wanted to know people's opinions.

[Can_of_corn]

I have seen both pitch at age 18 with my face pressed up against the backstop. How 'bout you?

It's funny when they do that.

[Bahama O's Fan]

Why is it that pitchers that come to Baltimore suck? Is it the AL East? Is it the parks? Are they on the down side of their career? Is it the coaching? If these guys would just pitch their career normal, we'd be fine, but they never do.

[El Gordo]

It was a genuine question. Did Angelos interfere in trading for a top notch starter or was Duquette lazy again? I wanted to know people's opinions.

We don't have the prospects in the system to get a top SP. We would have to trade from the ML roster, Schoop, Britton, etc. Plenty of people have said this already. I suppose you can blame DD for not building the system but if he had focused on this we probably wouldn't have had 4 straight winning seasons.

[scOtt]

Yes, this Josh Hader - top 40 in mlb.com's mid-season top prospect list. Currently rated ahead of the Nat's Lopez and top 3 pick in 2016 draft Nick Senzel

http://m.mlb.com/prospects/2016

The things you think are funny, I don't understand.

Sorry to hijack. It's kind of my job here...

[video=youtube;RVJiwyg0iDM]

work work work work

[Tx Oriole]

Why does someone have to be to blame? Every team is trying to get quality starters. The Rangers offered Gallo and Profar plus and the White Sox wanted more. The Orioles are only a game me a half out of first place and currently in the second wild card spot. Why not just enjoy the rest of the season instead of trying to assign blame. Back before DD got here we would be 20 + games out of first place at this point in the season.

Fans have forgotten the 14 years of losing. Fans got a taste of winning. I think we are spoiled. We want championships. I am old enough that I can look back on WS wins for the O's. there are a lot of young fans that can't look back on WS win for the O's. Maybe they are impatient. Want to celebrate a WS win. When the team is playing badly that's when they want pass blame. That's just part of being a fan.

IMO

[Can_of_corn]

Fans have forgotten the 14 years of losing. Fans got a taste of winning. I think we are spoiled. We want championships. I am old enough that I can look back on WS wins for the O's. there are a lot of young fans that can't look back on WS win for the O's. Maybe they are impatient. Want to celebrate a WS win. When the team is playing badly that's when they want pass blame. That's just part of being a fan.

IMO

Now see here.

It is precisely because I do remember the fourteen years of losing that I am concerned about the state of the franchise when Dan leaves.

[Tx Oriole]

Why is it that pitchers that come to Baltimore suck? Is it the AL East? Is it the parks? Are they on the down side of their career? Is it the coaching? If these guys would just pitch their career normal' date=' we'd be fine, but they never do.[/quote']

Why did Jake stink it up while in Baltimore?

[tntoriole]

Do you think anything changed in the relationship between Angelos and Duquette after Peter had to get in the news and take on the Toronto situation? Did it create more distrust? Did it contribute to a more direct ordering of how the Davis negotiation went? Or not?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Tx Oriole]

Now see here.

It is precisely because I do remember the fourteen years of losing that I am concerned about the state of the franchise when Dan leaves.

I didnt mean to offend you or anyone else.

[weams]

Why did Jake stink it up while in Baltimore?

Because he used to stink. And then suddenly, magically, over night, he got fantastic. Immediately. Suddenly. Overnight.

[atomic]

Yes, this Josh Hader - top 40 in mlb.com's mid-season top prospect list. Currently rated ahead of the Nat's Lopez and top 3 pick in 2016 draft Nick Senzel

http://m.mlb.com/prospects/2016

The things you thing are funny, I don't understand.

Matusz was rated in the top 5 by all the lists. He is pitching terribly in triple A to think you could trade him for a solid major league player at this point is comical.

[Tx Oriole]

Do you think anything changed in the relationship between Angelos and Duquette after Peter had to get in the news and take on the Toronto situation? Did it create more distrust? Did it contribute to a more direct ordering of how the Davis negotiation went? Or not?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I really don't know. I just remember reading that the Davis resigning was the owner. There may be a divide between the two. I would find it very difficult to work for Mr. Angelos.