Attendance problem not just an Oriole problem?

[weams]

On 10/26/2019 at 9:59 AM, Frobby said:

Couldn’t disagree more.    I love going to games in person.    There’s just something to being in a crowd of people when something exciting happens, hearing the crack of the bat, etc. that can’t be replicated watching on TV.

However, I vastly prefer watching football on TV to being there live.   
 

Basically, to each his own.    

The crack of the bat for Delmon Young and the concrete flexing with 43,000 jumping up and down. Cruz Barrel Roll. Give it to me. 

[Frobby]

Here's an interesting map assembled by SeatGeek analyzing, by county, which team sells the most tickets.    It shows that the majority of tickets sold to fans in Montgomery and Prince George's County are to Nats fans.    Interestingly, the O's "own" a pretty decent chunk of south central Pennsylvania.

https://seatgeek.com/tba/articles/where-do-mlb-fans-live-mapping-baseball-fandom-across-the-u-s/

[ShaneDawg85]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

Here's an interesting map assembled by SeatGeek analyzing, by county, which team sells the most tickets.    It shows that the majority of tickets sold to fans in Montgomery and Prince George's County are to Nats fans.    Interestingly, the O's "own" a pretty decent chunk of south central Pennsylvania.

https://seatgeek.com/tba/articles/where-do-mlb-fans-live-mapping-baseball-fandom-across-the-u-s/

I'd say there's some degree of accuracy with that map, though in my unscientific opinion I'd chalk up Allegany and Washington County more to Pittsburgh than I would the Nats, especially Allegany County.  Not terribly surprised by the south central PA assessment, most of the major towns and cities in that region of PA are distance wise closer to Baltimore than they are to Philadelphia, i.e. York, Harrisburg, Gettysburg, Stewartstown.  Plus, the Orioles  had a presence in the region from a merchandise and marketing standpoint with the Orioles store in York.

[DrungoHazewood]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

Here's an interesting map assembled by SeatGeek analyzing, by county, which team sells the most tickets.    It shows that the majority of tickets sold to fans in Montgomery and Prince George's County are to Nats fans.    Interestingly, the O's "own" a pretty decent chunk of south central Pennsylvania.

https://seatgeek.com/tba/articles/where-do-mlb-fans-live-mapping-baseball-fandom-across-the-u-s/

I want to see a heat map.  I'd bet that ticket sales fall off exponentially by distance.  The Nats "won" Roanoke, Virginia and Wilmington, NC.  But they probably sold 5000 times as many tickets in PG County.  Some of the counties in Alaska that are "owned" by the Mariners probably bought 8 tickets.

From Harrisburg it's 1:20 or so to Baltimore, two hours to Philly, and three to Pittsburgh.. That's why the O's own south-central PA.

I am disappointed that St. Mary's County flipped to the Nats.  I wonder how the map looked three years ago, when the records were different.  There are still a lot of O's gear-wearing people here.  Many of the oldtimers don't see themselves as DC people.  Harrisburg is 40 minutes closer to OPACY than my house is.

[DrungoHazewood]

6 minutes ago, ShaneDawg85 said:

I'd say there's some degree of accuracy with that map, though in my unscientific opinion I'd chalk up Allegany and Washington County more to Pittsburgh than I would the Nats, especially Allegany County.  Not terribly surprised by the south central PA assessment, most of the major towns and cities in that region of PA are distance wise closer to Baltimore than they are to Philadelphia, i.e. York, Harrisburg, Gettysburg, Stewartstown.  Plus, the Orioles  had a presence in the region from a merchandise and marketing standpoint with the Orioles store in York.

Washington County probably bought 633 Nats tickets, 573 Pirates, and 489 Orioles.  In another year that could flip 180 degrees.

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, DrungoHazewood said:

I am disappointed that St. Mary's County flipped to the Nats.  I wonder how the map looked three years ago, when the records were different.  There are still a lot of O's gear-wearing people here.  Many of the oldtimers don't see themselves as DC people.  Harrisburg is 40 minutes closer to OPACY than my house is.

By the way, it appears the data are pre-2019.    Possibly from 2017.    I found the map link in an article by the Stephen Fuller Institute, which studies the DC area economy.   Per the Institute, the counties going majority Nats have a population in excess of 16.6 million.    Unfortunately, they don’t provide the equivalent number for the Oriole-leaning counties.    https://sfullerinstitute.gmu.edu/2019/10/25/long-time-nats-fans/

[atomic]

3 hours ago, Frobby said:

Here's an interesting map assembled by SeatGeek analyzing, by county, which team sells the most tickets.    It shows that the majority of tickets sold to fans in Montgomery and Prince George's County are to Nats fans.    Interestingly, the O's "own" a pretty decent chunk of south central Pennsylvania.

https://seatgeek.com/tba/articles/where-do-mlb-fans-live-mapping-baseball-fandom-across-the-u-s/

If you have ever been to a Hershey Bears game you will hear them shout O during the anthem.

[atomic]

1 hour ago, DrungoHazewood said:

From Harrisburg it's 1:20 or so to Baltimore, two hours to Philly, and three to Pittsburgh.. That's why the O's own south-central PA.

Yet those same people are Steelers fans and not Ravens fans.  More likely Orioles have a done a good job marketing in that area with a York Orioles store and other events.

[spiritof66]

8 hours ago, weams said:

The crack of the bat for Delmon Young and the concrete flexing with 43,000 jumping up and down. Cruz Barrel Roll. Give it to me. 

It's hard for me to imagine that anyone with a choice would just as soon stay at home and watch a game like that on TV.

Oriole games like that are rare and aren't about to become less rare. For me, watching an Orioles game in person is very different from watching it at home even if the home team (a) really stinks, is mired in last place and has only a 1-in-3 chance to win, or (b) is decent and improving, with a 50-50 chance of winning, but trails the NYYs or RS by 10 or 15 games with no realistic hope of making it to the postseason. For me, some of those differences make the experience of going to an occasional game irresistible. But I can understand why some fans wouldn't find it worthwhile to pay for a ticket and take the time to watch a team like that. 

[Hallas]

1 hour ago, atomic said:

Yet those same people are Steelers fans and not Ravens fans.  More likely Orioles have a done a good job marketing in that area with a York Orioles store and other events.

These two positions aren't really mutually exclusive, and likely there's a bit of both going around.

[theocean]

1 hour ago, atomic said:

Yet those same people are Steelers fans and not Ravens fans.  More likely Orioles have a done a good job marketing in that area with a York Orioles store and other events.

Good point, probably because the Steelers have always been good. I-83 probably helps the Orioles in that area.

[weams]

3 hours ago, ShaneDawg85 said:

I'd say there's some degree of accuracy with that map, though in my unscientific opinion I'd chalk up Allegany and Washington County more to Pittsburgh than I would the Nats, especially Allegany County.  Not terribly surprised by the south central PA assessment, most of the major towns and cities in that region of PA are distance wise closer to Baltimore than they are to Philadelphia, i.e. York, Harrisburg, Gettysburg, Stewartstown.  Plus, the Orioles  had a presence in the region from a merchandise and marketing standpoint with the Orioles store in York.

Nationals AA is here. Bowie games are the top attendance. 

[DrungoHazewood]

15 hours ago, atomic said:

Yet those same people are Steelers fans and not Ravens fans.  More likely Orioles have a done a good job marketing in that area with a York Orioles store and other events.

This data is from ticket purchases.  The Steelers have probably sold out Heinz Field for years and years.  You don't just say "hey, let's take the family to the Steelers game on Friday"  First, there's no game on Friday, it's three hours away, and taking the family to an NFL game probably costs you $800.  It's a whole different thing to decide to go to a baseball game.  You can get bleacher seats for $20 the week of the game, and eat at Arby's on the drive down.  

Also, we have no data on NFL ticket sales in central PA.  So are they really all Steelers fans?

[DrungoHazewood]

15 hours ago, spiritof66 said:

It's hard for me to imagine that anyone with a choice would just as soon stay at home and watch a game like that on TV.

Oriole games like that are rare and aren't about to become less rare. For me, watching an Orioles game in person is very different from watching it at home even if the home team (a) really stinks, is mired in last place and has only a 1-in-3 chance to win, or (b) is decent and improving, with a 50-50 chance of winning, but trails the NYYs or RS by 10 or 15 games with no realistic hope of making it to the postseason. For me, some of those differences make the experience of going to an occasional game irresistible. But I can understand why some fans wouldn't find it worthwhile to pay for a ticket and take the time to watch a team like that. 

It would obviously be great to be there for an epic playoff game.  But the harder thing is how to get people to drive 90 minutes in weekday rush hour traffic and get home at one in the morning on a work night to see them play the Royals in May.  

I've literally gone to more Orioles playoff games in the last 20 years than weekday regular season games.

[eddie83]

24 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

This data is from ticket purchases.  The Steelers have probably sold out Heinz Field for years and years.  You don't just say "hey, let's take the family to the Steelers game on Friday"  First, there's no game on Friday, it's three hours away, and taking the family to an NFL game probably costs you $800.  It's a whole different thing to decide to go to a baseball game.  You can get bleacher seats for $20 the week of the game, and eat at Arby's on the drive down.  

Also, we have no data on NFL ticket sales in central PA.  So are they really all Steelers fans?

Anecdotally speaking the second you cross the PA line there are a ton of Steelers fans. A ton. Not saying there aren’t any in Maryland because of course there are some. 

On a side note last nights MNF game had plenty of empty seats in Pittsburgh.