Nobody I'd rather have behind the helm in 2017 than Buck

[DrungoHazewood]

This reminds me of the time Mussina was warming in the bull-pen during the all-star game and Cito wouldn't put him in.

If this results in Buck Sucks T-shirts there's going to be some kind of Oriole fan civil war.

[LC_O's_87]

How does a failure to score excuse not using your best reliever in any one of several high leverage situations?

Wouldn't the final 3 outs of the game be the most high leverage situation? I don't agree with the move to bring in Jimenez. I would have went Hunter against all those Right-handers the blue jays had stacked up.

At the same time, I'm a believer in the book -- you don't burn your closer on the road until you have a lead. Even in an elimination game. It's robbing peter to pay paul.

[DrungoHazewood]

Wouldn't the final 3 outs of the game be the most high leverage situation?

Not if they don't happen. And last night they didn't.

The best way to try to get to a lead (with respect to pitcher usage) is to put your best reliever out there in what might end up as the highest leverage situation.

[SteveA]

Wouldn't the final 3 outs of the game be the most high leverage situation? I don't agree with the move to bring in Jimenez. I would have went Hunter against all those Right-handers the blue jays had stacked up.

At the same time' date=' I'm a believer in the book -- you don't burn your closer on the road until you have a lead. Even in an elimination game. It's robbing peter to pay paul.[/quote']

No, a tie game in extra innings is pretty much as high leverage as it gets!

Also, as unlikely as it seems with the way we were hitting, suppose there was a walk, an error, and Trumbo or Manny or Schoop got hold of one and hit it out. And we had a 3 run lead. A lead which even a mediocre pitcher will protect 85-90% of the time. Then we bring in Britton? We wouldn't be gaining much going from a 90% chance to win to a 99% chance.

So we saved Britton for a specific situation that might never happen, rather than use him in a situation he is better suited for than anyone, CERTAINLY than a starting pitcher who is not used to coming in relief and who had the worst first inning ERA in the major leagues.

[O's84]

If this results in Buck Sucks T-shirts there's going to be some kind of Oriole fan civil war.

But Cito still sucks though. In the year 2560 people will still be saying it. It's eternal and is right up there with the phrase "See you in Berlin".

[El Gordo]

Completely agree. I don't understand not going to Britton, and I get the meltdown from the fans here, but Buck gives the team a better chance to win almost every night than almost any O's manager I've seen in 37 years.

I'd say every manager but one.

[Aristotelian]

Wouldn't the final 3 outs of the game be the most high leverage situation? I don't agree with the move to bring in Jimenez. I would have went Hunter against all those Right-handers the blue jays had stacked up.

At the same time' date=' I'm a believer in the book -- you don't burn your closer on the road until you have a lead. Even in an elimination game. It's robbing peter to pay paul.[/quote']

Buck, is that you? Welcome to the OH.

No, a tie game in extra innings is pretty much as high leverage as it gets!

Also, as unlikely as it seems with the way we were hitting, suppose there was a walk, an error, and Trumbo or Manny or Schoop got hold of one and hit it out. And we had a 3 run lead. A lead which even a mediocre pitcher will protect 85-90% of the time. Then we bring in Britton? We wouldn't be gaining much going from a 90% chance to win to a 99% chance.

So we saved Britton for a specific situation that might never happen, rather than use him in a situation he is better suited for than anyone, CERTAINLY than a starting pitcher who is not used to coming in relief and who had the worst first inning ERA in the major leagues.

Duensing had gotten the 1st out. As far as extra innings on the road goes, 1 out with nobody on is pretty low leverage. 95% of the time, Good Ubaldo gets two outs without giving up a run. Even Bad Ubaldo usually gets those out >50% of the time. Ubaldo just didn't get the job done.

[SteveA]

Buck, is that you? Welcome to the OH.

Duensing had gotten the 1st out. As far as extra innings on the road goes, 1 out with nobody on is pretty low leverage. 95% of the time, Good Ubaldo gets two outs without giving up a run. Even Bad Ubaldo usually gets those out >50% of the time. Ubaldo just didn't get the job done.

What does Bad Ubaldo usually do in his first inning of work? Worst first inning ERA in MLB.

[eddie83]

What does Bad Ubaldo usually do in his first inning of work? Worst first inning ERA in MLB.

My biggest beef is he has never been in that spot in his life, and the first time is in a must win game with other pitchers available. Whatever relief outings he has had have been mop up spots.

[TGO]

Buck made at least two unbelievably boneheaded mistakes last night (Ubaldo/no Britton and Reimold), but I have to co-sign this thread. There's no one else I'd rather have in the dugout on Opening Day 2017.

[MDtransplant757]

I'd say every manager but one.

I assume you're talking about this guy, right?

[SteveA]

My biggest beef is he has never been in that spot in his life, and the first time is in a must win game with other pitchers available. Whatever relief outings he has had have been mop up spots.

Yep, if it got to the 15th and we had used everybody but him, or but him and Bundy... then of course you bring him in.

But if you have better options, why? Why?

And when you have the BEST OPTION IN BASEBALL, oh my God WHY?

Sorry, no one will ever convince me this wasn't one of the worst decisions ever.

And no, I'm not demanding Buck be fired.

And yes, I realize we weren't hitting and might well have lost anyway.

And yes, I realize that if we used Britton for the 11th and maybe the 12th, and then the O's scored in the 13th or later, there was a chance that we might have to bring someone else in then and they might lose.

And NO, I would not have been second guessing Buck in that situation. I was saying in the game thread that Britton should start the 11th.

And yes, some people would have been just as apoplectic if Brach had blown it in the 9th, saying Britton should have been in then. But Brach is a very good reliever who has spent the past several seasons pitching in the late innings of tight games. If he didn't get the job done, I would have seen it as simply a failure on his part and not on a guy being put in a role he wasn't accustomed to or suited for at all. It's not the same situation at all, though I expect some folks on here would have been just as upset. I would not have been one of them.

And no, it was not just emotional reaction to the loss. I stand by every post I made last night critical of it, and in the harsh light of day I when I look at it rationally I still feel exactly the same way.

[Sessh]

The really insane part about this move is that Buck made this mistake 21 years ago with the Yankees. In Game 5 of the 1995 ALDS, he let SP Jack McDowell face the heart of the Mariners lineup instead of going to his closer, John Wetteland. We all know what ended up happening next. Edgar Martinez hits that famous double down the time line and Griffey ends up at the bottom of a dogpile at home as the Mariners move on to the ALCS.

Buck doesn't understand postseason baseball and does not win in the postseason as a result. He hasn't changed or learned a damn thing in his 20+ years of experience as a manager. Fortunately for Buck, everyone is just

fine with having a good regular season even if it never culminates into anything meaningful in the postseason. I guess 14 years of losing makes it easier for some to settle for less than the ultimate goal and that's fine, but

I want to compete for a championship. Simply making it to the postseason only to be eliminated in the ALDS or wild card game isn't enough nor is being swept out of the ALCS. That is Buck's ceiling. His track record as a

manager shows that clearly especially his tenure here. He is a regular season manager that can not win in the postseason because he doesn't understand how to manage in the postseason; period. That realization would be

enough for me to let him go and search for someone else if I was interested in making it deep into the postseason with a real chance to win a championship or at least compete in the ALCS. Be satisfied with being regular

season champions and postseason failures if you like; I'm not.

[O's84]

Hi guys, is it possible that in extra innings Buck was really Cito in disguise? He probably was trying to stick it to us again by not pitching our best pitcher, this time in a playoff game. Cito Sucks!

[LC_O's_87]

Sorry, no one will ever convince me this wasn't one of the worst decisions ever.

this truly is in the moment hyperbole. (1) The Orioles were not in a position to win. The game was tied. In order to be "one of the worst decisions ever" the manager's decision would have had to directly turn a sure win into a loss. (2) this was the wild card play-in game not game 7 of the world series or even an LCS.