Heyman on Buck/Britton

[VeveJones007]

http://www.todaysknuckleball.com/inside-baseball-with-jon-heyman/heyman-showalter-offers-couple-thoughts-inexplicable-call/

No one has yet adequately explained what Showalter was thinking, Showalter included, though he provided a hint or two more in a phone interview. And no one seems to know. Not really.

Britton was by far the best pitcher in baseball this year by the win probability added stat ? Britton?s 6.14 WPA topped Andrew Miller?s 4.79, Jon Lester?s 4.56 and Clayton Kershaw?s 4.19 ? and by about any other stats, too. He allowed four earned runs, and that was for the entire season. He was 47 for 47 in saves, so maybe Buck was hoping and waiting for such a situation.

It certainly seemed odd, though, that Britton wasn?t used at all in a winner-take-all game that was tied for no less than six innings.

Three Orioles people were asked what Showalter was doing or thinking, and none of them had a ready answer. One competing GM called it ?inexplicable.?

Orioles players were said to be ?(ticked) off? by the way the game and the season ended, though that was just a general comment by someone who had talked to only two or three of them. (?Of course they were. He cost them money,? the rival GM said.)

Britton was said to have been healthy and ready to pitch multiple innings, according to people familiar with the situation, something Showalter does not dispute. Britton, for his part, seemed downcast afterward; he expressed ?frustration.?

He’s dealing with it. But he hasn’t really explained it. Not really. And it doesn’t seem he will, at least not fully.

The closest he came was mentioning a few times how much easier things would have been had the Orioles been at home – “maybe the biggest thing is playing at home,” he said – but he certainly didn’t do a chapter-and-verse explanation on the calls that led to the game being tied for six innings, and Britton never getting in. Or the call to have Jimenez facing the three fateful hitters in the 11th, and Britton facing no one.

Oftentimes, there are things you can’t say, Showalter said at some point. And that’s certainly true. But if this was one of those times that he couldn’t say, well, he didn’t say.

“There are so many things going on, and many times you just have to wear it,” Showalter said.

There are so many who don’t know all that’s going on, and some of those may even be in front offices, he said.

Many of those times of secrecy revolve around a pitcher’s health or availability. But that wasn’t the case here. Britton felt fine, everyone said (Showalter included), and he was ready to go.

So it remains unclear whether there was some hidden reason he managed it the way he did.

“You never assume you’re going to be in a closing situation. That’s what makes the postseason different,” Showalter said at one point.

“If we played at home it might be a different dynamic,” Showalter also said.

Heyman with an interesting read on the fallout for the O's from the WC game. After reading, I'm left wondering why Buck won't give a straight answer about his decision not to pitch Britton in the 11th. Is it just arrogance/disdain? Did he not trust the offense to score a run over the next couple of innings? It's perplexing.

[Can_of_corn]

I can't reconcile these two statements.

You never assume you’re going to be in a closing situation.

If we played at home it might be a different dynamic

[O's84]

Nothing will ever explain logically why he left Ubaldo in, at the very least with 3rd and 1st 1 out when he was throwing meatballs up to the middle of the order. Not putting in the ground ball machine that is Britton is one if the worst decisions I've ever seen a manager make in the post season.

[VeveJones007]

I can't reconcile these two statements.

Maybe Buck had a paralysis by analysis issue at the time, but it's really disheartening that he hasn't reached the same conclusion after a week that all of us understood while it was happening.

[Tx Oriole]

http://www.todaysknuckleball.com/inside-baseball-with-jon-heyman/heyman-showalter-offers-couple-thoughts-inexplicable-call/

Heyman with an interesting read on the fallout for the O's from the WC game. After reading, I'm left wondering why Buck won't give a straight answer about his decision not to pitch Britton in the 11th. Is it just arrogance/disdain? Did he not trust the offense to score a run over the next couple of innings? It's perplexing.

Why do we have to keep going over this? Buck has been questioned over and over again. He's been roasted. My gosh it's time to get over it. It happened. It's past and no amount of blame for Buck and others or hand wringing is going to change one damn thing.

[25 Nuggets]

Maybe Buck had a paralysis by analysis issue at the time, but it's really disheartening that he hasn't reached the same conclusion after a week that all of us understood while it was happening.

Plainly in denial at this point. It's tough for anyone to own up to such a gargantuan mistake.

[25 Nuggets]

Why do we have to keep going over this? Buck has been questioned over and over again. He's been roasted. My gosh it's time to get over it. It happened. It's past and no amount of blame for Buck and others or hand wringing is going to change one damn thing.

Yes but that's what journalists and talking heads do... find a story and beat it to death. And then beat the dead horse.

[O's84]

Yes but that's what journalists and talking heads do... find a story and beat it to death. And then beat the dead horse.

[Redskins Rick]

Nothing will ever explain logically why he left Ubaldo in' date=' at the very least with 3rd and 1st 1 out when he was throwing meatballs up to the middle of the order. [b']Not putting in the ground ball machine that is Britton is one if the worst decisions I've ever seen a manager make in the post season[/b].

Doesn't even make the top 5 list.

In no particular order:

1 - Bill Buckner had no business being on first base for the Red Sox. Huge error by the manager.

2 - Dick Williams allowing Gossage to pitch to Kirk Gibson.

3 - Dusty Baker has 3 famous playoff collapses under his belt, and I don't count 2016 as a collapse. Too many bad decisions to list them all here.

4 - Grady leaving Pedro in the game 7 and 2003 ALCS with a lead.

5 - Brochy is a great manager and has made dumb decisions, like the 2012 rotation.

6 - 2013 WS, Game 6, Texas pinch hits and loses DH, but keeps Cruz as COF and he costs them the game.

[weams]

Scott Boras!

[wildcard]

What gets me is its not only Buck. His bench coach John Russell and his pitching coach Dave Wallace were very experienced and right there in the dugout. I really don't understand how it happened.

[Aristotelian]

It's not rocket science. He had a bunch of RH batters coming up and no idea how long the game was going to go. At this point, you think the odds are overwhelmingly strong that you are going to need to get some outs from Ubaldo, so you match him up against the RHBs that he has the best chance of getting out.

Once Ubaldo is in the game, you can't burn him.

The thinking may have been wrong, but that was the thinking.

[OFFNY]

Redskins Rick said:

 

Doesn't even make the top 5 list.

In no particular order:

1 - Bill Buckner had no business being on first base for the Red Sox. Huge error by the manager.

2 - Dick Williams allowing Gossage to pitch to Kirk Gibson.

3 - Dusty Baker has 3 famous playoff collapses under his belt, and I don't count 2016 as a collapse. Too many bad decisions to list them all here.

4 - Grady leaving Pedro in the game 7 and 2003 ALCS with a lead.

5 - Brochy is a great manager and has made dumb decisions, like the 2012 rotation.

6 - 2013 WS, Game 6, Texas pinch hits and loses DH, but keeps Cruz as COF and he costs them the game.

 

o

 

Historically, this is one of the most overblown and misinterpreted issues of all-time.

To this day, there are people who still believe that when Buckner made that error, the Red Sox were winning the game, and that the Mets scored 2 runs on said play.

The reality is that the Red Sox had already blown a seemingly insurmountable lead (2 outs, a 2-run lead, and nobody on base) in such a horrific fashion ........ 3 consecutive singles ceded by their best reliever (Calvin Schiraldi), and then the wild pitch by their 2nd-best reliever (Bob Stanley) WHICH GAVE THE METS THE TYING RUN, subsequently taking all of the pressure off of them. Even if Dave Stapleton were on the field and had made that play, it would not have saved the game for the Red Sox ........ THE GAME WAS ALREADY TIED, and the Red Sox, at that point, had emotionally just had their lungs ripped out.

Would the Red Sox still have had a chance to win that game had Stapleton been on the field, made the play, and the game went to the 11th inning ??? Technically, yes. But if I were a bookie laying odds on that game at that precise moment (right after Stapleton made the play and extended the game into an 11th inning), I would be laying the odds heavily in favor of the Mets.

Buckner's error (and/or McNamara's failure to have inserted Dave Stapleton as a defensive replacement for Buckner) was just the final nail in the coffin of what was a disastrous collapse by the Red Sox as a team overall in that game.

 

o

[weams]

o

Historically, this is one of the most overblown and misinterpreted issues of all-time.

To this day, there are people who still believe that when Buckner made that error, the Red Sox were winning the game, and that the Mets scored 2 runs on said play.

The reality is that the Red Sox had already blown a seemingly insurmountable lead (2 outs, a 2-run lead, and nobody on base) in such a horrific fashion ...... 3 consecutive singles ceded by their best reliever (Calvin Schiraldi), and then the wild pitch by their 2nd-best reliever (Bob Stanley) which GAVE the Mets the tying run, subsequently taking all of the pressure off of them. Even if Dave Stapleton were on the field and had made that play, it would not have saved the game for the Red Sox. The game was already tied, and the Red Sox, at that point, had emotionally just had their lungs ripped out.

Would the Red Sox still have had a chance to win that game had Stapleton been on the field, made the play, and the game went to the 11th inning ??? Technically, yes. But if I were a bookie laying odds on that game at that precise moment (right after Stapleton made the play and extended the game into an 11th inning), I would be laying the odds heavily in favor of the Mets.

Buckner's error (and/or McNamara's failure to have inserted Dave Stapleton as a defensive replacement for Buckner) was just the final nail in the coffin of what was a disastrous collapse by the Red Sox as a team overall in that game.

Was Ubaldo pitching the 11th?

[Can_of_corn]

It's not rocket science. He had a bunch of RH batters coming up and no idea how long the game was going to go. At this point, you think the odds are overwhelmingly strong that you are going to need to get some outs from Ubaldo, so you match him up against the RHBs that he has the best chance of getting out.

Once Ubaldo is in the game, you can't burn him.

The thinking may have been wrong, but that was the thinking.

Why can't you burn him? You still got Bundy in the pen and he could give you five easy.