Is Dan Duquette thinking of Trumbo as an outfielder?

[El Gordo]

3 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

So you disagree with the metrics?

Fine.

I don't.

You said you were basing your judgment on metrics here. · Reimold and Rickard are apples and Oranges, When Rickard has had 2700 IN then maybe. Reimold is limited in the field by his neck injury and Rickard is limited by lack of sufficient playing time.

 

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, El Gordo said:

You said you were basing your judgment on metrics here. · Reimold and Rickard are apples and Oranges, When Rickard has had 2700 IN then maybe. Reimold is limited in the field by his neck injury and Rickard is limited by lack of sufficient playing time.

 

I never said that.

I said that I agreed with the metrics.

That isn't the same thing at all.

I also saw (with my eyes) Reimold before he broke his neck.  Still toolsy, still bad in the outfield.  Kinda like Rickard was last year.

[25 Nuggets]

1 hour ago, El Gordo said:

Until you have at least two years of data the metrics are pretty useless. Ask Drungo, That would be about 2500 IN. So basing anything on 503 IN is silly. As to my eye, test I agree with Frobby and Buck, he has the tools to be a good OF and there is a period of adjustment toplaying in ML parks. Don't understand your point about Reimold but based on 2752 IN I'd say he's a sub par fielder.

I saw him miss a number of plays last year where the ball park he was in didn't matter.

...but this is about re-signing Trumbo to play RF again.  If the "getting used to Camden Yards" argument is made for Rickard, should it not be made for Trumbo?  Isn't it conceivable that he has a better year in 2017 out there?  That Trumbo could be "better than Trumbo"?

Anyway, that's just playing Devil's Advocate.  I really don't want him playing RF again for $13-15 mil.  That he has more value as a DH speaks volumes.

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, El Gordo said:

Until you have at least two years of data the metrics are pretty useless. Ask Drungo, That would be about 2500 IN. So basing anything on 503 IN is silly. 

You have to be careful about these statements.     The statistics arguably are helpful in assessing two things: (1) actual performance, (2) overall long-term ability.    As to the first, there's nothing "unstable" in the numbers -- Rickard played how he played, and while I'm dubious about how good these advanced metrics actually are, I don't think they get any better or worse at measuring actual performance.    They do get better at reliably indicating the player's ability.    It's like Ryan Flaherty putting up good offensive numbers for two months -- those numbers accurately reflect that he hit well over that period.    They don't reliably indicate that he's a good hitter.    Rickard did not field that well last year, but he didn't get enough chances where you can confidently say (based solely on the numbers) that he's a bad fielder.    In his case, I'm willing to guess, based on the eye test, that he'll do better in the future.    I'd also be willing to guess that Mark Trumbo won't get any better.  

[Babypowder]

41 minutes ago, 25 Nuggets said:

I saw him miss a number of plays last year where the ball park he was in didn't matter.

...but this is about re-signing Trumbo to play RF again.  If the "getting used to Camden Yards" argument is made for Rickard, should it not be made for Trumbo?  Isn't it conceivable that he has a better year in 2017 out there?  That Trumbo could be "better than Trumbo"?

Anyway, that's just playing Devil's Advocate.  I really don't want him playing RF again for $13-15 mil.  That he has more value as a DH speaks volumes.

And you can get comparable value at DH for much less of a commitment. I don't understand their pursuit unless it is to play RF, which I also see as a mistake.

[scOtt]

4 hours ago, 25 Nuggets said:

I saw him miss a number of plays last year where the ball park he was in didn't matter.

...but this is about re-signing Trumbo to play RF again.  If the "getting used to Camden Yards" argument is made for Rickard, should it not be made for Trumbo?  Isn't it conceivable that he has a better year in 2017 out there?  That Trumbo could be "better than Trumbo"?

Anyway, that's just playing Devil's Advocate.  I really don't want him playing RF again for $13-15 mil.  That he has more value as a DH speaks volumes.

But Trumbo had played in OPACY before (I think) and had played in many ML parks over the years. Just another new park to him. Joey had maybe or maybe not seen an upper deck before this past year. "Biggest step in major sports, minors to ML baseball" according to Buck.

[Can_of_corn]

7 minutes ago, scOtt said:

But Trumbo had played in OPACY before (I think) and had played in many ML parks over the years. Just another new park to him. Joey had maybe or maybe not seen an upper deck before this past year. "Biggest step in major sports, minors to ML baseball" according to Buck.

I don't recall a bunch of other minor league outfielders having the same issues.

[scOtt]

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I don't recall a bunch of other minor league outfielders having the same issues.

I don't know. I don't see near as many games as you all but I thought he showed a lot of promise.

[thezeroes]

14 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I don't recall a bunch of other minor league outfielders having the same issues.

I do not recall a whole lot of Minor League Outfielders playing well in Baltimore under Buck Showalter.  For that matter, there are very few MiLB players that are brought into Baltimore from our MiLB system to play period.  To that end , who are we comparing D. Alvarez, J. Rickard and Hyun Soo Kim to???

[scOtt]

3 minutes ago, thezeroes said:

I do not recall a whole lot of Minor League Outfielders playing well in Baltimore under Buck Showalter.  For that matter, there are very few MiLB players that are brought into Baltimore from our MiLB system to play period.  To that end , who are we comparing D. Alvarez, J. Rickard and Hyun Soo Kim to???

Manny and Schoop. Givens and Donnie Hart. Tough room.

[Can_of_corn]

4 minutes ago, thezeroes said:

I do not recall a whole lot of Minor League Outfielders playing well in Baltimore under Buck Showalter.  For that matter, there are very few MiLB players that are brought into Baltimore from our MiLB system to play period.  To that end , who are we comparing D. Alvarez, J. Rickard and Hyun Soo Kim to???

I wasn't just speaking of Baltimore.  If this multi-tier seating adjustment period is actually a thing it should be effecting all outfielders making the jump from the minors to the majors.

I just want some examples of folks other than Rickard that had issues with the adjustment.

 

Because frankly it sounds like an excuse to me.

[thezeroes]

Just now, scOtt said:

Manny and Schoop. Givens and Donnie Hart. Tough room.

Not Outfielders which I was not completely clear about. 

I was basically asking as to which MiLB Outfielders have been brought into Baltimore by Baltimore and play enough outfield to give any of the NEW METRICS a chance to quantify if they are going to be good or bad.

[scOtt]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

I wasn't just speaking of Baltimore.  If this multi-tier seating adjustment period is actually a thing it should be effecting all outfielders making the jump from the minors to the majors.

I just want some examples of folks other than Rickard that had issues with the adjustment.

 

Because frankly it sounds like an excuse to me.

I got nothin' but you should restrict it to rule 5 OFers. Jay Gibbons? Joey Bats?

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, scOtt said:

I got nothin' but you should restrict it to rule 5 OFers. Jay Gibbons? Joey Bats?

Why should it be restricted to rule V guys?

Folks are saying that part of the issue Rickard had on defense was due to adjusting to multi-tiered stadiums.  That would be the same for any outfielder making a ML debut.

[Frobby]

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I wasn't just speaking of Baltimore.  If this multi-tier seating adjustment period is actually a thing it should be effecting all outfielders making the jump from the minors to the majors.

I just want some examples of folks other than Rickard that had issues with the adjustment.

 

Because frankly it sounds like an excuse to me.

Could be, but I'll give Rickard the benefit of the doubt for now because I feel he did better defensively after the first few weeks.   He also moved around a lot, which isn't easy.