Buck, Bullpen management and wins

[thezeroes]

21 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

Then add another arm. 

I am all for adding another arm, but who??  Who do you jettison from the Forty to add those not on there??  Bowie plays two today, that will use up some of the available arms. 

21 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

So you are ok with a 3.5 man pen? 

I am OK with being cautious with pitchers who are shouldering a heavy work load this early in the season.  We have no Britton/Britton type available an the back four have had an already heavy work load Hart/Givens/O'Day/Brach. 

[eddie83]

Just now, thezeroes said:

I am all for adding another arm, but who??  Who do you jettison from the Forty to add those not on there??  Bowie plays two today, that will use up some of the available arms. 

I am OK with being cautious with pitchers who are shouldering a heavy work load this early in the season.  We have no Britton/Britton type available an the back four have had an already heavy work load Hart/Givens/O'Day/Brach. 

I already said Gentry or Rickard. 

 

The 4 you mention are going to have to pitch sometimes in low leverage spots just to get through a game. 

My pen for now assuming health

Brach 

O'Day

Givens 

Hart 

Asher 

Verrett

Nuno or another long man

 

Once again to be clear no reasonable person expects Asher or someone else to turn into Zach Britton. Speaking of Britton they brought him back with a 16-8 record. Afterwards it comes out that Zach pushed to be back and that the medical staff wanted to he more conservative. It is mid May the last thing a team 10 games over .500 should be doing is anything to impact the health of its arms. 

[eddie83]

It's one thing that you have pitchers pitching in spots that don't suit them best out of necessity, it is another thing to have to push starters deeper in games because you don't have enough arms in the pen. I prefer the former. 

[thezeroes]

1 minute ago, eddie83 said:

I already said Gentry or Rickard. 

In that case I would remove Gentry and open up the Forty Man Spot.  My hope is those in the Division that are having injury issues in the Outfield do not claim him and it comes back to haunt us.

At some point either Rickard or Smith will be injured which would leave an opening for Bourn if he stays healthy.  By jettisoning Gentry now would save doing it later.

Once Gentry is jettisoned and the Orioles need a pinch runner for Kim and/or Trumbo late in a game I can't wait to read that thread and its title.

[eddie83]

2 minutes ago, thezeroes said:

In that case I would remove Gentry and open up the Forty Man Spot.  My hope is those in the Division that are having injury issues in the Outfield do not claim him and it comes back to haunt us.

At some point either Rickard or Smith will be injured which would leave an opening for Bourn if he stays healthy.  By jettisoning Gentry now would save doing it later.

Once Gentry is jettisoned and the Orioles need a pinch runner for Kim and/or Trumbo late in a game I can't wait to read that thread and its title.

How many AL clubs can afford to carry a pinch runner until rosters expand in September? This isn't 1982. Gentry is a luxury item. I find it hard to believe a Gentry type can't be added in September. Remember Quintin Berry in 2014? He was on the Red Sox playoff roster in 13. They added him in late August. 

I certainly feel a 7th arm in the pen to help protect your arms is more valuable than a late inning pinch runner and defender. Smith is not a bum out there. He could replace a Mancini late in a game. 

You can't have both as you point out. Gentry would be missed in some spots but I think another relief pitcher over the course of the season is much more important. 

[thezeroes]

5 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

How many AL clubs can afford to carry a pinch runner until rosters expand in September?

So far it is the team currently in first place in AL East  and the team leading the AL West with this guy http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.fcgi?id=marisja01&t=b&year=2017

[eddie83]

7 minutes ago, thezeroes said:

So far it is the team currently in first place in AL East  and the team leading the AL West with this guy http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.fcgi?id=marisja01&t=b&year=2017

I have never understood these types of arguments. Are the Astros carrying a 5 man bench? Marisnick has started 12 games. If Mancini keeps hitting how many starts is Gentry going to get? They rested Davis last night. Rickard was on the DL for awhile. I find it hard to believe that Gentry is going to start much at all unless an injury occurs.  

[eddie83]

Last night was the first game Gentry has started all month. 

[thezeroes]

19 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

I have never understood these types of arguments.

I am to understand your argument yet you have no obligation to even fathom mine.  Interesting.

The forthcoming ability of Mancini to maintain his hitting stroke has left Gentry and Kim bench time.  Gentry does have a usable skill set late in a game while Kim has been replaced by Smith as the lefty hitter.  I see the Kim argument trends toward Gentry when in reality the player that supplanted him on the roster is Seth Smith. 

Now my argument is that Seth Smith is a better player overall than is Kim BUT he also has a hamstring that has been a concern.  Do you then cut Gentry and hope Kim can be the replacement when Smith needs DL time from his Hamstring or do you utilize the leverage of all the optional pitchers currently on the 40/25 to cover being one short in the bull-pen and keep Rickard, Kim and Gentry on the roster??

 

 

[eddie83]

3 minutes ago, thezeroes said:

I am to understand your argument yet you have no obligation to even fathom mine.  Interesting.

The forthcoming ability of Mancini to maintain his hitting stroke has left Gentry and Kim bench time.  Gentry does have a usable skill set late in a game while Kim has been replaced by Smith as the lefty hitter.  I see the Kim argument trends toward Gentry when in reality the player that supplanted him on the roster is Seth Smith. 

Now my argument is that Seth Smith is a better player overall than is Kim BUT he also has a hamstring that has been a concern.  Do you then cut Gentry and hope Kim can be the replacement when Smith needs DL time from his Hamstring or do you utilize the leverage of all the optional pitchers currently on the 40/25 to cover being one short in the bull-pen and keep Rickard, Kim and Gentry on the roster??

 

 

I don't care what another team does. That is what I am saying. You were pointing out the Astros playing Marisnick. The Astros are not carrying a 5 man bench. Not trying to be a jerk. 

Kim played everyday vs RHP last year, I don't know why after a handful of at bats now all the sudden they have no confidence in him. Once again is it possible Bourn hits well, of course but his skill set is declining. Smith and Kim were the projected starters vs RHP. Mancini has taken at bats away from Kim. I mean they were ok with Kim starting 6 weeks ago and now they aren't? 

I have said before it was a perfect storm for Mancini to make the club out of the gates. The schedule, who we played, and no Tillman gave him a chance and he has responded. I don't know why Kim should pay the price for 6 weeks of good hitting by Mancini. As long as Mancini is on the roster unless they sit Joey, Gentry isn't going to start.  Last night Buck rested Davis, which is unusual. 

[maybenxtyr]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

To me, Buck's track record with his bullpens speaks for itself.    No. 1 in win probability added since 2012, and very few injuries to speak of.    As I've said multiple times now, he knows much more than we do about what's going on down there.     I'm done commenting on this subject, and will just say again he and Dan get the benefit of the doubt from me on this subject because their track record shows they know what they're doing.   

I'm not questioning Buck about his ability to handle a bullpen. I don't think it is against the grain to expect them to bring up someone and make a decision about the outfield. We are getting to a point where they should start to have some stability and know the roles of most of the 25. Playing games with one slot on the shuttle isn't a big deal...doing it with 5-7 guys and manipulating the 10 day dl and call up list is a bit extreme.

[Aristotelian]

1 hour ago, eddie83 said:

How many AL clubs can afford to carry a pinch runner until rosters expand in September? This isn't 1982. Gentry is a luxury item. I find it hard to believe a Gentry type can't be added in September. Remember Quintin Berry in 2014? He was on the Red Sox playoff roster in 13. They added him in late August. 

I certainly feel a 7th arm in the pen to help protect your arms is more valuable than a late inning pinch runner and defender. Smith is not a bum out there. He could replace a Mancini late in a game. 

You can't have both as you point out. Gentry would be missed in some spots but I think another relief pitcher over the course of the season is much more important. 

+1

[Legend_Of_Joey]

They also have the option to 60 day DL Santander, which would open a spot on the 40. Also, once Castillo is cleared to return (probably after Sunday), you can have Pena DFA'ed, which will open up another spot.

If you DFA Gentry also, now you have 3 spots you can use on the 40 for optionable arms, with 1 having a roster spot (Gentry.)

I'm not sure what the issue with Kim is. He hasn't been given a chance to succeed. Yes, Mancini took at bats from him, but there have been a few spots where Kim could/should be playing, but isn't, even in a pinch hitter role.

[weams]

51 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

I don't care what another team does. That is what I am saying. You were pointing out the Astros playing Marisnick. The Astros are not carrying a 5 man bench. Not trying to be a jerk. 

Kim played everyday vs RHP last year, I don't know why after a handful of at bats now all the sudden they have no confidence in him. Once again is it possible Bourn hits well, of course but his skill set is declining. Smith and Kim were the projected starters vs RHP. Mancini has taken at bats away from Kim. I mean they were ok with Kim starting 6 weeks ago and now they aren't? 

I have said before it was a perfect storm for Mancini to make the club out of the gates. The schedule, who we played, and no Tillman gave him a chance and he has responded. I don't know why Kim should pay the price for 6 weeks of good hitting by Mancini. As long as Mancini is on the roster unless they sit Joey, Gentry isn't going to start.  Last night Buck rested Davis, which is unusual. 

Because Kim is not a defensive player and his career as an Oriole lasts another four months. At most. 

[yo123]

14 hours ago, OsFanSinceThe80s said:

Well it was a 4 man bullpen tonight.  So Hart and O'Day are both nursing injuries is what I'm reading into this.  Someone needs to go on the DL if they are both out another game. 

Maybe Chris Davis was available..